Author Topic: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup  (Read 3642 times)

Beasho

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eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« on: January 02, 2023, 07:26:52 PM »
So it has happened.  eFoils and Foil Drive Assists going through the lineup.
 
Where do eFoils and Foil Drives fit in the lineup hierarchy?

First there were SUP’s, then SUP Foil boards and Prone Foils introduced to the lineup and causing varying degrees of UPSET.   This past week it happened at one of the better spots in Northern California.
 
We have been SUP foiling when the waves are gigantic at this protected, otherwise beginner spot, for the past 4 years.  Buoys typically 15+ feet at 18 seconds and Mavericks would be breaking 30+ feet.  The knowledgeable beginners stay away, so the foamies clear out and we will catch waves at the half way point where they soften and the short boarders, or better long boarders are about to kick out at the end of their rides.  Takeoffs can range from 6 to 12 foot faces so its advanced foiling conditions. 

This week I was out and it was big, but not gigantic buoys 12 ft @ 14 seconds.  The long period wraps the point inside to where the beginners sit and there was a pack of foamies well inside.  I was SUP Foiling and could takeoff on 5 to 7 foot unbroken faces 200 yards wide of the pack.  Then I would fly wide into the open, unbroken ocean. 

I turn for a wave and the eFoil Assist guy 20 feet inside of me says “You going?”  Really!  You’re going to power OUT into the lineup and then ASK me, as if you are going to SPIN and go!!!!!!

There has to be SOME UNIFORM etiquette around eFoils. 

I am not a hater, and there are some outer reefs that a Foil Drive Assist would be great but at this spot it was clear that the eFoilers were NOT advanced riders.  They were learning to takeoff deep as opposed to developing good paddle skills and flying wide of the whole world where the entire open ocean would be their playground. 

We have managed to keep the piece as foilers but the locals were yelling at the powered guys. 

PS: For the record there was a guy on a Lift eFoil last week that was totally keeping wide.  Never tangled with anyone, totally respectful, skilled and was having fun.     

Beasho

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2023, 07:27:52 PM »
Sample video here. Example where we were all getting along. I am the UPPER LEFT most person.

Prone guy was crushing it, flying all over the place, he is pumping out in the opening clip.

Foil Assist guy center top video takes off @ 5 seconds and falls. I then paddle and takeoff @ 10 seconds upper left. Foil Assist guy stands up and takeoff again @ 20 seconds. I cut back and see 2 others on the wave and fly super wide. Prone guy hops back and loops around.

Foil assist guy is porpoising up and down and crashes again @ 27 seconds, I go off screen and back and prone guy flies back out to his friend at original takeoff spot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYNebiVnmGQ

surfcowboy

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2023, 08:08:03 PM »
"Hey man, don't ride that here. Go over there."

Problem solved. Local problem, local solution.

PonoBill

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2023, 11:30:05 PM »
There are always assholes, of every flavor. It's not the equipment, it's the dickhead abusing it.
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WHS

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2023, 12:35:26 PM »
"Hey man, don't ride that here. Go over there."

Really?

You need waves (surf or DW) to use a foildrive. It is not an Efoil. Using a foildrive is definitely cheating so some etiquette is important and I look forward to others comments when going out in waves.

I've only gotten out in waves 4 days last fall with the foildrive (I live in the mountains). I was worried about the vibes so I found a spot that I could catch non breaking waves that wouldn't have anyone else out. I was catching waves right away and getting decent rides. Easier than DW in my opinion but lots to learn and can't wait to be confident enough to hit some of the better spots next spring.

Beasho I've had my eye on that spot and would love to catch it sometime, but that place gets super crowded with surfers even when its not really breaking.

Beasho

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2023, 08:06:56 PM »
I had more experience with the Foil Drive Assist in the Lineup again today.  I learned a few more things:

A) They power out to the lineup faster than foils, or SUP's 

B) They are taking off in or around the other SUP foilers

I think the rule should be:

1) If you have a motor you have to take off WIDER than any other surf craft

2) If you are close enough to clearly communicate AKA call someone in or suggest going Right vs. Left then you are too close and need to go further down the line. 

#1 was how I always SUP'd when around Prone Surfers.  Taking off deeper on a craft that could paddle faster was verboten. 

Because of their ability to catch, and power back out, they are potentially always on a wave.  This means that PRIORITY rules have to change.  Similar to a person Pumping back out.  Priority goes to the unassisted paddlers ALWAYS.  If they follow #1 and #2 this should never be an issue. 


Califoilia

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2023, 11:56:36 PM »
Any motorized surf craft needs to be taking off on swells that human-powered surf vessels are unable to catch. This does not mean go way outside, catch the swell, and then foil through the lineup...it means stay out of and away the f'n line up!  >:(

EDIT: To be fair, I feel like I'm cheating with my Kings 7'10x19.5"x115L DW board, and make sure that I'm not chasing what others on less glidy boards would be able to get into. Yes, the urge is there to turn for everything, because now I can dang near catch everything, but I remind myself that "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should", and what I nicely say to the growing number of "eCrafts" (efoils, tow boogies, and now Foildrives) that we're starting to see in the lineup.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 12:03:20 AM by Califoilia »
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

sflinux

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2023, 03:07:12 AM »
1) If you have a motor you have to take off WIDER than any other surf craft
2) If you are close enough to clearly communicate AKA call someone in or suggest going Right vs. Left then you are too close and need to go further down the line. 
How much does an efoil weigh?
SUPs were seen as dangerous in a prone lineup because of the size/weight/surface area of the board.  I learned to respect this after breaking a rib with my sup.  For that reason, if there are other surfers around, I move to a different peak.  If it is crowded, I use the smallest board possible.
I would imagine the weight of an efoil, not to mention that it is attached to a foil, would pose a hazard to others in the lineup.  For that reason, efoils, similar to SUPS, should avoid being around other surfers.
With traditional powered surfing the totem pole for right away was:
Kiters should yield to windsurfers, surfers, swimmers.   The reason a kiter should yield to a windsurfer is the hazard of kite lines of a downed kite.  I would think that an efoil would be similar to a windsurfer/kitesurfer.  An efoil at the mercy of a wave, with its weight and attached foil is a hazard in a lineup.
Proposed Right of Way: kiter < efoil < foiler < windsurfer < surfer < swimmer
We have an efoiler at my lineup, but so far he just cruises up and down the coast, have yet to see him catch any waves around other surfers.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 03:40:33 AM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Jimmy Lewis, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
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WHS

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2023, 08:40:24 AM »
I think the rule should be:

1) If you have a motor you have to take off WIDER than any other surf craft

2) If you are close enough to clearly communicate AKA call someone in or suggest going Right vs. Left then you are too close and need to go further down the line. 

#1 was how I always SUP'd when around Prone Surfers.  Taking off deeper on a craft that could paddle faster was verboten. 

Yes I agree when using an foil drive theres no need to crowd anyone or be aggressive about taking every wave. I was checking out that spot yesterday, after my post, and it looked amazing. Such a large area to ride with so many wide, long waves, someone would have to really be a dick to get in your way there!

I plan to stay well clear of everyone and still get my share of rides. With the foildrive I could even get out before the tide drops when nobody else can catch waves yet. Just hoping some asshole(s) doesn't ruin it for me before I even get to show up.

WHS

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2023, 09:03:20 AM »
How much does an efoil weigh?

I would imagine the weight of an efoil, not to mention that it is attached to a foil, would pose a hazard to others in the lineup. 
[/quote]

Foildrive weighs 8lbs according to their site. Basically makes a light board (both of mine are about 11lbs) more like a heavy one. Efoils are like 80 lbs.

PonoBill

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2023, 09:28:03 PM »
The weight is highly variable, A full-on eFoil with a 3-hour battery could weigh 100 pounds. A little foil drive clone, like the one I've built, adds about two pounds to the weight of the board. the battery is in a backpack and weighs six pounds. Less than a full camelback.
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clay

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2023, 03:59:38 PM »
I've been out with foil assist and efoils at several spots in CA and Hawaii.  Last year it was only used for riding uncatchable waves far away from any surfers, this to me is the perfect application.

For people who are injured or have age issues that prevents them from paddling I'm all for these folks using technology to play in the ocean.

This year I'm seeing guys motor around me and take off deeper or further out.  This seems guaranteed to cause friction or even conflict.   The wave in question shuts down at high tide, the electric folks can have it to themselves then.  I hope they self regulate before ordinances start getting passed.

The noise pollution is a bummer for me.  The foil assist makes weird gurgling sounds, and the efoils make a whinning non-stop high pitched irritating sound.
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PonoBill

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2023, 07:44:47 PM »
I was out surf foiling a few weeks ago and there was a guy with an eFoil out that was really good. The waves sucked, the tide was high and the best of them were waist-high. He was catching them well away from the few of us huddled in the shallow part of the reef, hoping for a set wave. Whenever he cranked a big turn on the face of a wave I'd hear his drive shut down, and then he rode the punky wave all the way to the beach, probably with occasional blips of power to make a flat section. It was impressive, and none of the surfers or foil surfers were offended in the least. In general, the comments were "I've got to get one of those".

I think if they are handled well, with a modicum of respect, there would be no problem. But certainly, the assholes are going to fuck that up.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

clay

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Re: eFoil Etiquette in the Lineup
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2023, 12:42:52 PM »
The reaction to this guy efoiling is all over the map.  Some say it's the coolest thing and can't wait to try it, others say it's everything wrong with surfing.  Given all the boat traffic at Ft Point it seems silly to be bothered by him, if he was charging the peak or getting close to surfers I could see, but way out on the shoulder?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rie8ez-o0nU
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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