Author Topic: Print to Ride  (Read 21340 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #105 on: January 25, 2023, 06:32:49 PM »
I got about 40 percent through a print test last night and my .4 nozzle clogged and started printing nothing. I decided to install one of the .6mm hotends I recently received. Got it all reassembled and the filament wouldn't load. So I took the entire extruder out and found a piece of cut filament lodged sideways. So that was fun. But I have to say that .6 printing looks very promising. I'm not sure why, but the print looks more precise and the goofy Support G stuff isn't stringing like it usually does. So I got that going for me.

I finally got my 1200mm X 19mm OD, 15mm ID tube. It's a nice-looking part, hyper-stiff, though it's a tiny bit bowed. I rolled it on a marble slab and it's roughly 1/16th bowed. It won't matter much in fuselage length.

The bad news is that it's generated another round of re-designing the wing root. I don't think the 15mm plug is robust enough on its own. I think it's important that it slides into the shroud for some distance, and I don't want a step in the transition--a streamlined connection. That means the insertion length needs to be even deeper since a streamlined connection is intrinsically thin. Obviously gluing all this together will help brace the flimsy bits, but I want the connection to be as strong as possible. Printing these parts in PLA with infill made it easy to see (qualitatively) where the weak spots are going to be. The plug is about the weakest spot.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #106 on: January 26, 2023, 03:00:07 AM »
I got about 40 percent through a print test last night and my .4 nozzle clogged and started printing nothing. I decided to install one of the .6mm hotends I recently received. Got it all reassembled and the filament wouldn't load. So I took the entire extruder out and found a piece of cut filament lodged sideways. So that was fun. But I have to say that .6 printing looks very promising. I'm not sure why, but the print looks more precise and the goofy Support G stuff isn't stringing like it usually does. So I got that going for me.

I finally got my 1200mm X 19mm OD, 15mm ID tube. It's a nice-looking part, hyper-stiff, though it's a tiny bit bowed. I rolled it on a marble slab and it's roughly 1/16th bowed. It won't matter much in fuselage length.

The bad news is that it's generated another round of re-designing the wing root. I don't think the 15mm plug is robust enough on its own. I think it's important that it slides into the shroud for some distance, and I don't want a step in the transition--a streamlined connection. That means the insertion length needs to be even deeper since a streamlined connection is intrinsically thin. Obviously gluing all this together will help brace the flimsy bits, but I want the connection to be as strong as possible. Printing these parts in PLA with infill made it easy to see (qualitatively) where the weak spots are going to be. The plug is about the weakest spot.

I have the .6 nozzles now as well.  What layer heights have you tried?  Air printing (in my case) means a stuffed nozzle.  If the nozzle gets plugged, then the extruder jams as well.  You can clean it all and get it working again but the trust is gone and once the parts have failed they seem to keep failing (on long prints). 

Your part is small still so likely under 8 hours?  My part is a lot bigger than yours. Had to be said.  It is the really long print times that are causing the most issue.

The 15 mm plugs are super strong.  You can stand on those with full weight and bounce.  They will need to be deeply rooted.  I mentioned this above but I have left a lot of meat between the mast well and the fuse plug.  At least at first I want the whole hub/console to be bomber. 

You should contact the carbon tube guys.  I have 4 tubes here now with no discernable bow.  Even a little bow is going to throw your incidence, your righty/lefty or both.   
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 06:10:44 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #107 on: January 26, 2023, 09:25:15 AM »
So far I'm not thrilled with the .6mm nozzles. Lots of failed prints lately. I've been using default setting for .6mm with the exception of a little rafting and thicker walls. I didn't screw with recommended layer height. I'm getting a lot of blobs, even with PLA.

The bowing of the carbon tube is pretty small. I figured I'd use it like a fishing rod blank where you find the direction it droops the most and mark that as the top. Incidence can be measured and adjusted for as long as the droop is slight, righty-lefty not so much.

I've been working on this stuff a lot since there is absolutely no fucking wind. The surfers and the golfers are happy. Maybe I should take up golf--just shoot me now.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #108 on: January 26, 2023, 02:22:36 PM »
So far I'm not thrilled with the .6mm nozzles. Lots of failed prints lately. I've been using default setting for .6mm with the exception of a little rafting and thicker walls. I didn't screw with recommended layer height. I'm getting a lot of blobs, even with PLA.


For the PACF (now they are calling it PAHT-CF) they are suggesting the .6 nozzle with a .2 layer height.   The default layer height when you switch to the .6 nozzle is (oddly) .3 so I would change that for sure.  Smaller may work as well, but..   I think I finally have settings that will work but I will let you know in a bit.  Long prints with carbon have been driving me nuts.  This whole concept hinges on being able to print large carbon parts so this needs to work.   More soon...

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #109 on: January 26, 2023, 08:38:04 PM »
Yeah, I tweaked the settings a bit, and a lower layer height cleaned the prints up a lot and cut back on the blobs. I went back to .4 just because. And everything is printing nicely. I think .6 is a definite requirement for filament with stuff in it, but I was a bit sick of twiddling. I have some more spools of PA-CF on the way. I'm printing my latest design and a wing section in PETG just to see how stuff fits together. The shrouded peg tail boom connection is bomber. I glued one up with epoxy with the body in straight polycarbonate, and I can't flex it, never mind breaking it.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2023, 01:40:29 PM »
So this is wild, and has implications for all kinds of things, including the Faux Drive I've built but have had endless problems keeping a propellor together for. I'd buy a metal prop from Foil Drive if I could, but they only sell them to customers. I think this prop would be a lot stronger as a 3d print and more efficient and safer if I get tangled up in it. The overall idea might play well in a 3D-printed wing--no tip vortices because no tips. Might not be worth the extra work, and I certainly wouldn't want to build one any other way--I can't imagine the work required to mold one. There was a hydrofoil built this way but made with conventional carbon fiber construction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO862lWuBdE
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #111 on: January 28, 2023, 01:27:19 PM »
Nice of Sharrow to provide drawings. Maybe I could get them to send me a .f3d file. Mmmm probably not, they've patented the shit out of this thing. From the looks of the drawings, which I grabbed off one of the videos, they made this one to run from an electric motor or a very small outboard. Big outboards connect with a spline, not a shaft and shear pin.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #112 on: January 29, 2023, 02:34:18 PM »
So happy to have that unexpected detour in the rearview.  That was driving me nuts.  I finally have printer config and slicer settings that will allow for large (and long duration) solid carbon parts without jamming. This hub is really critical because it will manage (almost) all of the loads and I want it to be rock solid - and now it is.  All of the other parts will have much shorter print times.  I have the next wing section printing now.  This printer is named the X1 Carbon so you would think it would come ready to print carbon.  To some degree it is, but really only for relatively small prints.  It will definitely do larger parts but it does take accessories and a lot of fiddling.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 02:36:16 PM by Admin »

PonoBill

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The king is dead...
« Reply #113 on: January 29, 2023, 06:14:54 PM »
So much for having mastered lofts and rails. I'm going insane trying to loft wings with airfoils and splined rails. The dreaded "rail does not connect to all profiles" with one end of the rail floating in the air. I've tried coincident constraints, projecting an interface, and construction lines through the middle. All the tricks work perfectly with any other shape but don't work with the dat-to-spline airfoils. I've even tried tracing them.

On top of that my last four prints failed, with more or less the same problem you described, which is odd because I have several PA-CF prints with even larger areas, but I'm getting lifting and even distortion of the print plate (never saw that before). So what did you find?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 06:59:56 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #114 on: January 29, 2023, 07:02:16 PM »
A nice print by the way. What size are those rod holes? I'm using 5mm, those look more like 8mm.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: The king is dead...
« Reply #115 on: January 30, 2023, 04:17:54 AM »
So much for having mastered lofts and rails. I'm going insane trying to loft wings with airfoils and splined rails. The dreaded "rail does not connect to all profiles" with one end of the rail floating in the air. I've tried coincident constraints, projecting an interface, and construction lines through the middle. All the tricks work perfectly with any other shape but don't work with the dat-to-spline airfoils. I've even tried tracing them.

On top of that my last four prints failed, with more or less the same problem you described, which is odd because I have several PA-CF prints with even larger areas, but I'm getting lifting and even distortion of the print plate (never saw that before). So what did you find?

Hi Bill, a few things.  How many profiles are you linking?  Are you doing your rails all on a single sketch or on multiple sketches?  What plane are you sketching your rails on?  No profile movement of any kind before doing your rails and lofting, right? I am sure you are manually closing the profile ends (trailing edge), but that is also mandatory.   Which points are you choosing as attachment points on the profiles.  Are you super zoomed in to be sure you are attaching top the right point (very easy to miss).  Same points used on all profiles, right?  I hope am am hitting all of the points but I may have missed some.  This part is super fidgety.  I for the life of me do not know why Fusion is so specific with these profiles.  Lofting anything else is super easy even with really complex shapes and a lot of rails.

I haven't seen any lifting of the plate yet and no warping.  Are you using the engineering plate?  The one with no tape, just the bare plate?  That is the only way to go for Carbon.  You may want to cool your late a little.  I did burn the surface on one of the plates early on  (the other side was still fine after peeling off that BS tape).  That was when I was printing with no loft.  That was sucking anyways because the base of the print mushrooms a bit and gets this melty glaze.  Rafting fixes all of that. 


« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 04:48:16 AM by Admin »

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #116 on: January 30, 2023, 04:40:13 AM »
A nice print by the way. What size are those rod holes? I'm using 5mm, those look more like 8mm.

They are 15 mm :).  I realized after jumping on my printed rods, "why am using anything else?"  This way we can create cavities which act as ribs and the separately printed rods can link and add massive reinforcement at custom sizes.  On the next wing section they are 15 mm on one side and 12 mm on the other, although of course you could use multiple sizes at one joint.  It is amazing how this stuff evolves as you get into the process.

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #117 on: January 30, 2023, 09:08:00 AM »
How straight are your printed rods? I get a substantial amount to creep and warp on the ones I've printed. I assume that even pultruded carbon rods are stronger and stiffer than anything we can print, and it's nice to have lengths longer than 230mm available. Not to mention the printing time.

Yeah, I can rail to complex shapes and with weird dimensions off the drawing plane with ease. But as soon as I plop an airfoil down everything goes to shit. Even tracing the shape with a single spline (or two, for that matter) leaves the rails hanging in space. The closest I've gotten is by centering the foil along the plane and using project>interface, but that only works if you want a straight wing, not one with an anhedral. Sometimes the foil shapes are not even clickable--even for constraints. I'm going back to square one and learning the software from first principles. That's going well and I'm progressing rapidly--at everything but the stuff I actually want to do. I can design a parametric desk and animate the assembly like a pro, but I don't want to do any fucking woodworking.

I'll try your list of "things I might be fucking up" and report back. I talked to Raaphorst about it yesterday and he said sometimes he has to simplify the shapes a bit by boxing the ends. Tried that, no dice. It might just be AI payback for crowing that I got this shit mastered.

I'm going to go beat up the dog a bit. It's safer than grumping at Diane.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #118 on: January 30, 2023, 04:05:07 PM »
Wait, What? 15mm?? How thick is your wing going to be. I'm basing mine on the 999 ART. It's not 15mm thick.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #119 on: January 30, 2023, 09:34:29 PM »
I'm McLovin' this innie/outie plug and shroud joint. Mega strong, and slick. I used a bit of JB weld to stick the carbon tube into the PA-CF body. That shit is hard to sand.

Going to .2mm layer height with the .6mm extruder is nice. Rafting it up a bit (6 layers) and getting the support right without using support filament solved the rest. Oh, and I dropped the nozzle and bed temp to 2 degrees above the minimum. I'm going to try annealing these in sand in the oven. I tried it with a little PLA hook and it's crazy strong. No infill, heating parts with infill to the crystallization temp makes them warp like mad. It adds two hours to the production time, but it's on its own for most of the time and I can bake bread at the same time. The bread tastes a little funny...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 09:37:37 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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