Author Topic: Print to Ride  (Read 12825 times)

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2022, 05:22:53 AM »
Further down the road we may end up passing our carbon bar(s) or tube(s) through a premade carbon tube or bar which can be used a fuselage.  We can custom make that part later for a slicker integration.  That will give us a bonded carbon T frame which we can slip printed PA-CF tail wing sections onto.  When complete, that will be 2/3 of our puzzle.  There is no reason that we could not later use tapered carbon bar for the wing support as mentioned above.  That may prove super beneficial.  There are a lot of cheap premade carbon bars and tubes available which could serve as a fuse until we make our own.  https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/25502-group

I am getting stoked on this idea.  Here is another thought provoker (not mine) likely a car wing from here: https://www.addify3d.com/product/3dxtech-carbonx-pa12cf-carbon-fibre-nylon/

« Last Edit: December 30, 2022, 06:42:33 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2022, 08:09:44 AM »
Yikes, you're looking at some crazy expensive printing filament there. A thousand HK bucks for 500g is a little over $300 for 1.5kg. It better be good, and you probably don't want to print a filament change block alongside the part. 
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2022, 08:30:04 AM »
Yikes, you're looking at some crazy expensive printing filament there. A thousand HK bucks for 500g is a little over $300 for 1.5kg. It better be good, and you probably don't want to print a filament change block alongside the part.

Hi,
No, I am not considering the filament.  Bambu already offers the same PA12 and CF but made stiffer with PA6 for a reasonable price.  Just interesting to see their uses and examples.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2022, 05:33:09 PM »
Here is a highly scientific test of a PA-CF print for the center section of the foil design I posted yesterday.  the carbon bar that would go through this has not arrived yet, so this is not reinforced.  It is also printed at 30% infill so, far from solid.  First balance tester is my grandson at 65 lbs and then my wife at 115.  At 6 inches, this is a relatively short section, but I hope it gives some idea of stiffness and suitability to be used as a pedestal or mount.  I need to tweak this print a lot (and make some changes to the file itself).  An error on my part left it so that only one of the two screws is actually tightened.  🙂.


https://youtu.be/D2ZVULGM4os

« Last Edit: December 31, 2022, 06:33:34 AM by Admin »

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2022, 11:53:56 AM »
Yikes, you're looking at some crazy expensive printing filament there. A thousand HK bucks for 500g is a little over $300 for 1.5kg. It better be good, and you probably don't want to print a filament change block alongside the part.

Hi,
No, I am not considering the filament.  Bambu already offers the same PA12 and CF but made stiffer with PA6 for a reasonable price.  Just interesting to see their uses and examples.

I was wrong about that.  Looking at the spec sheet for this stuff it is really stiff 7900 MPa.  Wonder if we could print it?

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2023, 08:12:03 AM »
It depends on the melting temp, but probably. It will be abrasive, so steel nozzle, and maybe .060 instead of .040, but you probably already have a steel nozzle in your Bambu, and if you don't, the nozzle/hotend combo is 15 bucks.

More importantly, you revealed your charming wife's weight. For most women, you would now be the late admin, but ballooning up to 115 lb is probably not a touchy subject.

Revisiting that wing cross-section above, I'm liking the curved internal bracing. Of course, we'd still have infill to support the overhang (unless we print these things vertically which is a bad idea for strength, as the parts break fairly easily along layer lines).
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 09:04:31 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2023, 09:10:04 AM »
There's a german guy who built some strength-testing gear to test printed parts. He's tested a lot of filaments, including CF-impregnated PC and PA. I'll try to find his data. Or better yet, get him to try some of the more expensive CF stuff. I've read that filaments that use carbon fiber powder are actually weaker but filaments that use stranded carbon test well, I just don't remember how much better they are.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2023, 10:24:13 AM »
There's a german guy who built some strength-testing gear to test printed parts. He's tested a lot of filaments, including CF-impregnated PC and PA. I'll try to find his data. Or better yet, get him to try some of the more expensive CF stuff. I've read that filaments that use carbon fiber powder are actually weaker but filaments that use stranded carbon test well, I just don't remember how much better they are.

This is likely your dude.  There are a few others as well.  I just posted this on the FB group but, We are at 4420 MPa so stiffer than the stuff he had tested aside from the diamond stuff. Now, this CF above is almost twice as stiff.  Wonder if it is longer strands of fiber.  That stuff is really stiff but my understanding was that it is a no go on our printers.  On the other hand, I am pretty happy with Bambu's PA-CF.
 The part above is 44 grams.  I am liking the idea of varying flex with rods and using them as connectors.  That offers us a lot of options.  I ordered a bunch of carbon rod sizes and variations to test with in pockets.  We can easily do pockets for 5, 4 and 3 mm circular solid carbon rods in the wing above (for instance).  I have all of those sizes coming.  I also ordered a few carbon tubes that could be fuselages for our alien spaceship wings. (mast into front wing).  I am really starting to like that concept and it is starting to come clear how we can do it pretty easily.  I have the wing shape done in fusion but I can't complete it until I know what it will attach to.  Baby steps.

 https://cdn.shopifycdn.net/.../Bambu_PA-CF_Technical_Data...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te0Wwf7Dxj4
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 10:37:56 AM by Admin »

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2023, 10:45:41 AM »
One interesting thing is that our filament (finished) is lighter than finished laminated carbon fiber 1.09 g/cm3 vs 1.55 (or greater).  A solid wing of PA-CF is likely lighter than a foam cored wing of laminated CF (and certainly lighter if comparing solid to solid).  We just aren't as stiff.  But, if we can selectively control flex at a level that we like it may be the best option for some uses.

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2023, 12:50:51 PM »
I'm making painfully slow progress at Fusion 360 design. Moving along a but better now that I've quit doing general lessons designing boxes and teacups and just jumping into wing designs. This is the "works of primitive man" version of a wing but I think I'll make faster progress now.

What facebook group??
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 12:53:07 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2023, 02:23:51 PM »
Sweet.  This is the FB Group:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/232666917793846

PonoBill

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2023, 04:27:42 PM »
I made a pedestal for the tail to connect a flat wing to an Axis fuselage. Things are moving along a lot quicker now that I've quit fucking around. I'll print it as soon as I get my Prusa fixed. I'm waiting for a part from wherever the heck Prusa is. Prague?

I suspect if the Bambu printed material is strong enough we could print the fuselage as well. Perhaps just make it a shroud for a tube. Incorporate the mounting pedestal and the locking structure to connect to the wing in the shroud. The mast could connect both to the wing with a bit of offset to mitigate drag from the intersection and to the shroud of the fuselage. There are some nice titanium inserts that work well for printed plastic. They hold best if they're inserted in the back side of holes. I'll sketch some of this up tonight.

Given the laydown sled, it would be good to minimize fuselage length. We can print a bunch of lengths and find what works.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 04:30:50 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2023, 08:32:08 PM »
We are at 4420 MPa so stiffer than the stuff he had tested aside from the diamond stuff. Now, this CF above is almost twice as stiff.  Wonder if it is longer strands of fiber.  That stuff is really stiff but my understanding was that it is a no go on our printers. 

I don't see anything in the print requirement that indicates the Bambu won't print it:
Extruder: 265-285C check

Bed Temp: 90-110C check

Nozzle: Hardened steel nozzle with minimum diameter of 0.4mm recommended
You might need to change out your nozzle. I already have a .4 hardened steel nozzle installed.

Bed Prep: Magigoo Bed Prep Adhesive and 3DXTECH Polyimide Tape work best for 3DXTech filaments: Easy to do. I have some good Kapton tape that works well with fancy-schmancy filaments

Heated Chamber: Recommended check

Other: Ideal layer height is 60% of nozzle diameter. Not recommended printing layers smaller than 0.2mm with carbon fiber reinforced filaments.

Sure, OK. Set in software or G-code but that's actually kind of standard.

They also recommend drying at 90 C for 4 hours. I'm not sure whether they mean drying the filament or the finished part. I have a filament dryer but it doesn't go to 90C. I think mine is about 70C max.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2023, 11:31:06 PM »
Check this out. I was ready to try some but I am not impressed by this at all.  The Bambu CF with PA 6 in the mix is a world better than this.  He is breaking 2-3 mm bars with a little thumb pressure.  My tail wing wingtips fade to a line and I cannot break them, even with serious load (although the tips do flex at this thickness).  Great reviews though and a lot of options.  https://visionminer.com/collections/nylon .  I emailed them for samples.  They are in Beaverton :).   They seem like a great resource.
 This really has me thinking how different each filament can be, even with the same name such as "PA-CF".  I am again majorly impressed with what Bambu is doing.  It is also incredible that his stuff gets a line free smooth finish at steeper angles.  The product looks sintered when finished and it sands to carbon suede.  So nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91VH-dU07PQ
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 12:11:36 AM by Admin »

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Re: Print to Ride
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2023, 11:55:33 PM »
I'm making painfully slow progress at Fusion 360 design. Moving along a but better now that I've quit doing general lessons designing boxes and teacups and just jumping into wing designs. This is the "works of primitive man" version of a wing but I think I'll make faster progress now.


Check if you can move your imported root section and your tip section up and down on the Z axis.  If not, try again but don't start on the origin.  Fusion wants to lock you to the origin and it can be a bear to get it to release, even taking the prescribed steps.  Once they are free, you get vertical control over your design.  Are you using loft to extrude?

 


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