Author Topic: Cedrus Aluminum Mast  (Read 3167 times)

burchas

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Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« on: July 26, 2022, 04:57:52 PM »
Project Cedrus just came out with their Engineered Aluminum mast:

https://projectcedrus.com/cedrus-development/engineered-aluminum/
https://projectcedrus.com/product/aluminum-mast/

Same stiffness standards and characteristics of their Carbon mast with just 25% added
weight for 25% of the price of the Carbon mast according to the creator.

$230 for a high end light stiff aluminum mast seem like a great deal, especially if you already own
some of the adapters. only 2 Weeks lead time, though you might find the size you need on one of the
retailers he's going to offer it through (MacKite I think).

I was contemplating adding a 96" mast for the big days. Based on my experience with the Carbon Cedrus
and the NoLimitz, I'm leaning towards the Aluminum Cedrus.

These light masts in combination with the small light foils and the small light boards are a dangerous combination
in high winds where the whole setup becomes a flying Machete. Had two close calls with no serious injuries or
damage to equipment but it got me thinking that a little less weight and float might have been a better choice for these days.

Any thoughts?
in progress...

Vancouver_foiler

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2022, 06:16:48 PM »
Agreed 100%.

StellaBlu

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2022, 07:28:04 PM »
Iíve got a Cedrus as my main mast. My thinking is that the drag is sometimes a drag, but the stiffness is unsurpassed (often outweighing the drag) and Iím also pretty invested in the system. As such, Iím considering a short Alu mast for the infrequent situations where depth is an issue. Simplicity is important to me and the blog section of the website mentions that the mast isnít sealed or coated. That sounds a little less simple and gives me some pause. Anybody have more intel on what this means and how to deal with it? I want Cedrus to succeed but a mast filling with water seems a bit half baked. 

Also - is it the same profile as the carbon masts?  Unless I missed it Iím surprised there is no mention.

Hdip

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2022, 07:46:09 PM »
Yes it's the same profile and uses all the same adapters. It will fill with water and drain, as it has open space on the interior. He's trying to write a blog about how to seal the hollow space yourself.

burchas

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2022, 08:16:03 PM »
I previously owned the Slingshot Phantasm 72 Alu mast. I don't remember having issues with the mast
Though I suspect it was unsealed (water was always draining after a session).

What's the downside of the mast filling in with water? I believe added weight might be a benefit for this use case.
in progress...

Velasco

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2022, 02:06:07 AM »
If the mast is open, wouldn't the water level inside the mast just sit at the level of the water surface?  So added water weight really isn't a factor (unless you are jumping a lot and the "opening" doesn't allow the water to drain instantly).

jondrums

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2022, 11:56:45 AM »
I was super disappointed to hear that it isn't sealed.  but not to hard to do it myself (for me).  I think it will ultimately limit the market potential until that's solved though.  There are lots of aluminum masts on the market that are sealed with some type of dispensed cured adhesive product.  I successfully sealed up my Takuma aluminum mast after cutting it down with hot glue. 

The $230 price point is awesome.  Finally a new piece of kit that hasn't escalated the game to charge the most!

I am strongly considering grabbing a few lengths just to have those length options for special cases.  Also a great way to try out a different length for a while.

Thatspec

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2022, 10:28:03 PM »
The two most important bits of information seem to be missing from the manufacturers website;
1. How thick is it?
2. What does it weigh?

Hdip

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2022, 10:48:30 PM »
19mm. Itís exactly the same as the current carbon version. Itís 25% heavier.

Fishman

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2022, 05:25:28 AM »
Looks like good option to me.

Some aluminum mast have pop in rubber  plugs. Like a cork in a bottle, you just push them in place. Get a good close tolerance fit and that solves that.

I've used lock tight expansion foam which seems to hold up good too.
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SUS4Life

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2022, 08:33:12 AM »
How is the stiffness compare to Axis alu mast? and their new new carbon mast?  Good idea on the rubber plug, I'm sure it won't be that hard to 3d print something out with TPU.

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2022, 08:57:40 AM »
Depending who you're talking to. The stiffness is the same as AXIS 19mm aluminum, or greater than the AXIS 19mm aluminum. Also depending who you're talking to the cedrus carbon is stiffer than the AXIS power carbon high modulus and the bend tests AXIS has done are bad tests and don't actually reflect stiffness in the real world.

So stiffness is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

I have no skin in the game as I don't ride AXIS or own a cedrus at the moment.

BayAreaKite

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2022, 10:56:36 AM »
hello all, Kyle with Project Cedrus here. I value forums and would rather spend my time clarifying confusion or answering questions, than my money on marketing or google ads.

Regarding sealing the mast: I tried closed-cell spray foams and they did not last. I have also seen through experience that most aluminum masts will lose there seal, suffer from water ingress, and even worse, the water won't come out! So I made the decision not to seal the aluminum mast, unless I had a year+ to do proper R&D on a seal that lasts, and let clients address water ingress if it is important to them. Also keep in mind, adding $20 in labor/materials to seal would add 40+ to the final price. That's just unfortunately how it works when you get involved in retail. Finally, I couldn't open myself up to warranty issues by promising a sealed mast. I'm just being transparent. Most brands have reasonably high warranty rates, and thanks to a low cost, can afford to replace a bent aluminum mast or two. I can't afford to replace masts, aluminum or carbon, and fortunately I don't have to. I can tell you for certain that it actually costs more to install my stainless helicoils in the aluminum mast, than it would to buy a complete extrusion from China. But I believe in supporting our community with meaningful manufacturing jobs.

As for stiffness, it is not in the eye of the beholder. It is 100% scientific, engineering, objective data. I have tried to explain the proper way to characterize stiffness of a mast, but Adrian at Axis will not listen. And I only use his name because he is open in his latest Blue Planet interview about his feelings of Project Cedrus. Hanging a weight at the end of the mast is not a proper test for mast stiffness. It is a good way to assess the strength/stiffness OF THE MOUNT. The mast is subject to a constant bending moment when being ridden, which if you are not an engineer, you may not understand. Here is just one link if you want to dabble in structural engineering: https://www.constructupdate.com/what-is-shear-force-and-bending-moment-diagram/ The cantilever test that Axis does puts a maximum moment at the mount, with a decreasing moment throughout the length of the mast. It will give you inaccurate direction regarding the actual stiffness of the mast. It's also the main reason so many brands taper masts, because they don't think it impacts stiffness. But it does. Properly testing is not complicated and does not require fancy equipment. I showed Devon at Wake Thief how to properly test bending stiffness of a mast here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auJ2WlxNMfA We didn't address torsion at this time, but in other videos, he has.

I can see how this would easily result in confusion and differing opinions on stiffness. If Axis is using a different test method, they will have different results. Anyone who's ridden a NoLimitz mast has told me it's not as stiff as Cedrus. Is it thinner? yes. Is it lighter? yes. But it is not stiffer or stronger, partly because they too test incorrectly, as evidenced by their own website. I started this project in large part because I was fed up with the marketing in sports equipment, when brands make false claims, especially related to Cedrus, it boils my blood. I am setting up a proper testing procedure and plan to be a guest on Blue Planet to continue showing the world how to design and build a stiff mast as I have on my blog since 2018...

Thank you, Kyle @ Project Cedrus with lots of skin in the game ;D

Hdip

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2022, 11:42:53 AM »
As someone who watches to the end of very blue planet episode, I'm excited to see your episode! Thanks Kyle.

SUS4Life

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Re: Cedrus Aluminum Mast
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2022, 01:33:42 PM »
Thanks Kyle, there should be a mast stiffness test standard.  I too hate companies tries to manipulate testing procedures to create favorable result for their products. Looking forward to your interview with Robert.

 


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