Author Topic: Suggestions for materials & glass schedule for LIGHTER non-disposable surf sup?  (Read 1059 times)

magentawave

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My current board is 7'-10" x 29 1/4" x 4 1/4" x 114.5 liters. I like it but it's a little heavier than I would prefer so I want the next one to be lighter.

Foam was 1.5 lb EPS. I used 6 and 4 oz E on the top and bottom with a 6 oz E patch that extends from the tail to in front of where I stand while paddling. Excluding the 6 oz E deck patch, ALL 4 layers of E cloth were wrapped around the rail. I also put a 5.7 oz carbon patch on the deck in the area for when I occasionally knee paddle. The blank was stringerless but I used 3" wide carbon tape as a stringer.

The board is always in a bag when not surfing so damage incurred happens while surfing. I want my new board to be lighter without it being disposable so I'm open to suggestions, please.

For example; could a single layer of 4 or 6 oz S replace the 6 and 4 E that's on the top and bottom? Should I NOT wrap all 4 layers around the rails? Lose the carbon stringer and carbon deck patch?

NOTE: I don't want to vacuum bag or replace the regular cloth with carbon cloth.

Thanks! :)

Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

surfcowboy

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Dual layer 6-4 but only lap one layer. 1 layer of S won't do it.

Bag it.

If you want lighter, don't hot coat it. Maybe fill coat it, lightly, maybe. Then use micro balloon paste, squeegee on. Fill it and light sand it til the pinholes are gone. Primer, paint. Will be ugly AF, light as hell.

It isn't a longboard, we will never be cool. It's time we quit building boards like they did in '65.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 08:38:23 PM by surfcowboy »

sflinux

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How much does the board weigh?
Pat Rawson uses S cloth on his boards for compression stength:
https://paddlewoo.podbean.com/e/pat-rawson-a-legendary-shapers-thoughts-on-sup-design-mo-freitas-and-the-future-of-the-sport/
S cloth won't save any weight, but make the compression strength 20% stronger.
To save weight, you could do one layer on the bottom, but keep two layers on the top.  I would recommend William "Stretch" Reidel's glassing schedule.  One 6 oz glass on the bottom.  One 6 oz glass on the top.  Then another 4 oz glass on top.  He explains the lay up here:
http://www.stretchboards.com/news/2015/06/22/cft-construction-unique-lamination-process/
I would use S cloth for the one bottom layer, and use S cloth for at least one of the top layers.
https://www.daveyskysurfboards.com/blog/general-surf/surfboard-glassing-schedules-weight-vs-strength/
Duraglass 6+4/ 6.
I like your carbon stringer.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 09:13:00 AM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"

magentawave

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Dual layer 6-4 but only lap one layer. 1 layer of S won't do it.

Bag it.

If you want lighter, don't hot coat it. Maybe fill coat it, lightly, maybe. Then use micro balloon paste, squeegee on. Fill it and light sand it til the pinholes are gone. Primer, paint. Will be ugly AF, light as hell.

It isn't a longboard, we will never be cool. It's time we quit building boards like they did in '65.

1) How will the strength be (dents & dings) when filling the laminate weave with microballoon goop vs a straight epoxy "hot coat"?

2) Have you ever done that without paint and on a clear board? If so, how did it look?
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

magentawave

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How much does the board weigh?
Pat Rawson uses S cloth on his boards for compression stength:
https://paddlewoo.podbean.com/e/pat-rawson-a-legendary-shapers-thoughts-on-sup-design-mo-freitas-and-the-future-of-the-sport/
S cloth won't save any weight, but make the compression strength 20% stronger.
To save weight, you could do one layer on the bottom, but keep two layers on the top.  I would recommend William "Stretch" Reidel's glassing schedule.  One 6 oz glass on the bottom.  One 6 oz glass on the top.  Then another 4 oz glass on top.  He explains the lay up here:
http://www.stretchboards.com/news/2015/06/22/cft-construction-unique-lamination-process/
I would use S cloth for the one bottom layer, and use S cloth for at least one of the top layers.
https://www.daveyskysurfboards.com/blog/general-surf/surfboard-glassing-schedules-weight-vs-strength/
Duraglass 6+4/ 6.
I like your carbon stringer.

I will check out the links when I have time tomorrow. Thank you.

Does an increase in "compression" strength translate to more resistance to dents and dings?
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

SUPeter

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Just finished a board(downwinder foil board) which turned out as light and as strong as I could make it.
glassing schedule is as follows:
deck area -1/8" Divinicell with 3k carbon twill over.
All covered with 3.8 oz Innegra cloth, covered by 4 oz fiberglass cloth( need this for sanding, cant sand Innegra.). All Vacuum bagged.
Very lightweight, very durable.

surfcowboy

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Dual layer 6-4 but only lap one layer. 1 layer of S won't do it.

Bag it.

If you want lighter, don't hot coat it. Maybe fill coat it, lightly, maybe. Then use micro balloon paste, squeegee on. Fill it and light sand it til the pinholes are gone. Primer, paint. Will be ugly AF, light as hell.

It isn't a longboard, we will never be cool. It's time we quit building boards like they did in '65.

1) How will the strength be (dents & dings) when filling the laminate weave with microballoon goop vs a straight epoxy "hot coat"?

2) Have you ever done that without paint and on a clear board? If so, how did it look?

Looks great. But you get to pick the color. I'd go dark.

For ding resistance ditch the carbon, go all glass. (if you want to argue go to Swaylock's lol) But seriously, carbon isn't going to be ding resistant no matter what unless you cover it with a lot of glass and then... why did we buy that expensive carbon? Stiff breaks, flexy bends. Carbon is stiff.

finbox

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I think the compression strength referred to - is the pressure ding resistance of S- glass being superior to E glass. That usually shows on the bottom of the board as how did I get that kind of damage.  I like a carbon strip on the rails over the fiberglass to keep dings to a minimum. It also feels harder when you hit it with the paddle blade.
My Hobie RAW with the innerga grid has aged well and is on the lighter side

magentawave

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How much does the board weigh?
Pat Rawson uses S cloth on his boards for compression stength:
https://paddlewoo.podbean.com/e/pat-rawson-a-legendary-shapers-thoughts-on-sup-design-mo-freitas-and-the-future-of-the-sport/
S cloth won't save any weight, but make the compression strength 20% stronger.
To save weight, you could do one layer on the bottom, but keep two layers on the top.  I would recommend William "Stretch" Reidel's glassing schedule.  One 6 oz glass on the bottom.  One 6 oz glass on the top.  Then another 4 oz glass on top.  He explains the lay up here:
http://www.stretchboards.com/news/2015/06/22/cft-construction-unique-lamination-process/
I would use S cloth for the one bottom layer, and use S cloth for at least one of the top layers.
https://www.daveyskysurfboards.com/blog/general-surf/surfboard-glassing-schedules-weight-vs-strength/
Duraglass 6+4/ 6.
I like your carbon stringer.

You asked before how much my board weighs but I forgot to answer. I don't have a scale now so can only go by feel when carrying. I know it's a little heavier than I would prefer due to the schedule (6-4 + 6-4 + 6 deck patch + all layers were wrapped around the rails + 6 oz carbon around the knees + carbon "stringer.")  I will find a scale and weigh it so I can compare it with my new board that I start glassing next week.

I watched that Stretch video and the other links. Placing the 4 oz on the deck on the bias for better flex and resistance to breaking was very interesting. Do you know if it matters which layer on the deck goes down first? 6 oz linear or 4 oz on the bias?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 11:43:44 AM by magentawave »
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

magentawave

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I think the compression strength referred to - is the pressure ding resistance of S- glass being superior to E glass. That usually shows on the bottom of the board as how did I get that kind of damage.  I like a carbon strip on the rails over the fiberglass to keep dings to a minimum. It also feels harder when you hit it with the paddle blade.
My Hobie RAW with the innerga grid has aged well and is on the lighter side

A few years ago I bought a custom RAW 9' longboard style sup from a guy used that still looked new. Fun board and looked super cool with Innegra and carbon but it was scary fragile. It was really meant for pro's that get free boards which is why I think the guy sold it before his $2700.00 board was worth nothing. I eventually broke it.

A simple and cheap way to save your rails is to put car door edge protector on the edges of your paddles blade. Would I use car door edge protector on my paddles if I was competing and got free equipment? Nope.
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

magentawave

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Dual layer 6-4 but only lap one layer. 1 layer of S won't do it.

Bag it.

If you want lighter, don't hot coat it. Maybe fill coat it, lightly, maybe. Then use micro balloon paste, squeegee on. Fill it and light sand it til the pinholes are gone. Primer, paint. Will be ugly AF, light as hell.

It isn't a longboard, we will never be cool. It's time we quit building boards like they did in '65.

1) How will the strength be (dents & dings) when filling the laminate weave with microballoon goop vs a straight epoxy "hot coat"?

2) Have you ever done that without paint and on a clear board? If so, how did it look?

Looks great. But you get to pick the color. I'd go dark.

For ding resistance ditch the carbon, go all glass. (if you want to argue go to Swaylock's lol) But seriously, carbon isn't going to be ding resistant no matter what unless you cover it with a lot of glass and then... why did we buy that expensive carbon? Stiff breaks, flexy bends. Carbon is stiff.

Maybe it's just semantics but technically we don't do "hot coats" since we're using epoxy. After laminating I do one fill coat and I'm done. Paint adds weight so it seems like one fill coat would be lighter than a coat of microballoon goop followed by paint. Right?
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

 


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