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Author Topic: Foot pressure when foiling.  (Read 4168 times)

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2022, 06:58:20 AM »
..if there might be some advantage to having some front foot pressure or if neutral pressure is best.

Neutral (balanced leg) pressure throughout the speed range of your foil is the wholly grail. In practice, youll likely get neutral pressure for 80-90% of the speed range, then its front foot biased. The thing you dont want, is that last 20% to be back foot biased. If you do, youve got your tail tune wrong. On the flip side, if your front foot pressure increases early in the speed range, you need a smaller front wing.

Badger

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2022, 07:35:57 AM »
..if there might be some advantage to having some front foot pressure or if neutral pressure is best.

Neutral (balanced leg) pressure throughout the speed range of your foil is the wholly grail. In practice, youll likely get neutral pressure for 80-90% of the speed range, then its front foot biased. The thing you dont want, is that last 20% to be back foot biased. If you do, youve got your tail tune wrong. On the flip side, if your front foot pressure increases early in the speed range, you need a smaller front wing.


Great info Dwight!  Thanks.

Now that you mention it, my leg pressure probably isn't precisely neutral all the time. I will look at it more closely next session.


Naish S26 Hover 110L - Axis HPS 980/440 - BSC 1060/400 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

surfcowboy

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2022, 07:38:18 AM »
Burchas, also tail changes (bigger?) or a longer fuse should stabilize things a bit too. I'm actually borrowing a longer mast to use when working on foot switching just because that and a big tail should make things slow down, pitch-wise, a bit.

Badger

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2022, 07:53:29 AM »
I'm using the standard fuselage which is pretty long (765mm) and the 440 tail which is also pretty big.

When I see videos of people flying along level and relaxed, I feel like my gear might not be tuned correctly. I'm still a novice though and I'm happy with my progress. I'm also 65 next month so I can't expect to pick it up as quickly as I could have ten years ago.
Naish S26 Hover 110L - Axis HPS 980/440 - BSC 1060/400 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

surfcowboy

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2022, 11:21:29 AM »
Sorry, Badger I messed up the names.

Yeah then you likely should play with foot/mast position. I'm 55 and took 15 mo to jibe. I feel ya. But it'll come with steady work/play. This stuff is fun, not competitive which I love.

Wave Chaser

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2022, 11:39:38 AM »
Badger, as a recent beginner I think part of the learning process is learning to be comfortable with what at first feels unstable rather than using gear that takes instability out of the system.  I am also on Axis gear and I benefited hugely from downsizing.  I started on HPS 980 / 420 / and short fuse.  At my light weight it seemed like I would get locked into a trajectory at anything faster than about 13mph (a guess).  Speed induced inertia.  Whether going up until I breached, going down until I touched or pearled, or whether locked into a slow turn, I just didn't have the body weight to make adjustments once the in-motion inertia kicked in.  There is such a thing as too stable, even for beginners.  At slower than 13, I could control it much better, but who wants to go slow all the time?

I felt instantly comfortable on the 830 / P350 / Ultrashort at all speeds except max (Thanks to Lenny at Live2kite for the recommendation).  When I'm fully powered with a deep draft wing and I bear off and sheet in for max speed...then I'm at the limit and I have to concentrate.  But even then if I pay attention I won't wipe out.

So to apply my situation to how Dwight explained it, on the 980 I only had neutral (balanced leg) pressure throughout the bottom 50% of the speed range and I never really felt entirely balanced.  On the 830 / P350 / Ultrashort I feel like I have neutral pressure through 90+ % of the speed range.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 11:42:04 AM by Wave Chaser »
Age:  61
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140lbs / 63kg
Axis HPS 830, Ultrashort fuse, P350 tail, 86cm carbon mast, 45l Axis Froth board

RSeeG

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2022, 10:15:17 PM »
Hi Badger, I have an identical setup except (except for 475P rear wing) and am also starting out.

I started with the Axis base plate at the back of the tracks of the Naish board.  Wanted to move it back a bit more due to the same issues you mentioned so spoke to my local shop.  They gave me two longer screws and washers and I was able to move it back about 15mm using the next set of holes on the base plate.  This allowed me to stand more comfortably where the footstrap holes are on the board with fairly even foot pressure.

So the Axis / Naish combination is fine for me now.  For me a bit more practice seemed to help with foot placement / pitch / ride height.  Managed to clock 25km/h on the BSC1060 the other day... so something must be right  ;D.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 10:34:27 PM by RSeeG »
Naish Hover 125L - Axis BSC 1060/ 475P, short fuse, 82cm mast, Naish 5.3, DLab 6.5
Me - 6'1" - 190lbs

Badger

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2022, 03:54:56 AM »
Hi Badger, I have an identical setup except (except for 475P rear wing) and am also starting out.

I started with the Axis base plate at the back of the tracks of the Naish board.  Wanted to move it back a bit more due to the same issues you mentioned so spoke to my local shop.  They gave me two longer screws and washers and I was able to move it back about 15mm using the next set of holes on the base plate.  This allowed me to stand more comfortably where the footstrap holes are on the board with fairly even foot pressure.

So the Axis / Naish combination is fine for me now.  For me a bit more practice seemed to help with foot placement / pitch / ride height.  Managed to clock 25km/h on the BSC1060 the other day... so something must be right  ;D.


Having the mast all the way back in the tracks was the key to attaining my first long flights, but I only kept it there for a few sessions. It was very back-foot heavy but it gave me a lot more control. Once I got used to flying the foil that way, I was then able to move the mast forward in increments to the KD balance point where my foot pressure was more equal.

Now, by further fine-tuning my foot placement, I'm finding that by moving the mast forward of the balance point and getting my back foot behind the mast, I can still have fairly equal foot pressure and good control. Moving the mast forward makes it a bit easier to get up on foil when underpowered.

The 1060 has been a great foil to learn on and is a great light wind foil. It goes fast in light winds but sometimes feels sluggish with too much lift in higher winds. I'm going to try the HPS 980 to see how that compares.



« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 04:44:28 AM by Badger »
Naish S26 Hover 110L - Axis HPS 980/440 - BSC 1060/400 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

MikeLima

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2022, 09:34:26 AM »
Hello fellow WingMainer*, I too had this issue with my earlier 110 L naish hover, and so did Eric. I ended up getting stick on strap attachments, and adding padding up front. But then, I slowly became aware that takuma foils came stock with what I now believe to be over aggressive tails. I now ride a 220 chopped two bumps in, 178 or 13kd exclusivity even with the 1440, and if I were still in that board I doubt Id still  have that issue. And, Im dipping my toes into axis now, and while they dont ship with specific tails, I think some of them are too big. For example the wake thief package includes a 460 glide(I guess packages do ship with tails), and after some time behind the boat, I found it to be draggy and lifty like takuma in the day. I put the 375p on it and liked it way better, I might negatively shim it too. 
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

Badger

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2022, 10:53:03 AM »
Hi Mike, I hadn't considered how my 440 tail might be affecting the ride. Tails are a whole other rabbit hole to do down and now that I have a short black fuselage coming for my 980, I might start experimenting with shims at some point but I'm not at that level yet.
Naish S26 Hover 110L - Axis HPS 980/440 - BSC 1060/400 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

MikeLima

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2022, 01:01:58 PM »
If I'm not mistaken the Axis shims that came with the bolt set shim positive, so finding a negative lift shim might be harder than getting a smaller tail. I was thinking of putting a toothpick in there since there's a curve, and breaking the ends off but that's not a permanent solution. I might be taking crazy pills, but the AOA on the tails seem a little extreme, even compared to takuma which I'm used to, so it might be worth figuring out. BTW the p375 looks about the same size as my go-to 178 tail. Changing from the 460 to p375 made the foot pressure way more balanced, and allowed the 1150 to turn a bit too! I'm currently trying to get a 325.
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

daswusup

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Re: Foot pressure when foiling.
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2022, 04:23:48 PM »
I ride strapped. Even foot pressure takes a bit more tuning with straps. However, once dialed, strapped riding, for me, is way more radical than unstrapped, especially with the wider wings like 999/1099. I ride everything on crazyshort and 325. Not everyone may be ready for this set up but when you are, it is way easier to crank radical turns on big wings.

 


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