Author Topic: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts  (Read 23742 times)

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25446
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2022, 03:00:07 PM »
I use the 8mm though the more common 6.5 mm is more than enough for a foildrive. You can get them from most online hobby shops, castle creations makes some sizes.

Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

burchas

  • Custom Built
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2022, 03:37:11 PM »
Looks like fanatic is listening... Two stage rocker on the new 2023 Wing Board with much more pronounced tail rocker.
in progress...

deja vu

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2022, 05:18:17 PM »
Apparently no tail rocker with this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_IUfqdwaws

burchas

  • Custom Built
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #78 on: August 31, 2022, 05:45:09 PM »
Apparently no tail rocker with this one:

Seems like a two stage with healthy tail rocker. Similar to their Wing Raider.
in progress...

deja vu

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2022, 06:59:00 AM »
So when they say "flat tail" it really means something other than flat? "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

So anyone know if the Wing Craft V2 has tail rocker as well? 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 07:05:07 AM by deja vu »

burchas

  • Custom Built
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2022, 05:39:11 PM »
So when they say "flat tail" it really means something other than flat? "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

So anyone know if the Wing Craft V2 has tail rocker as well?

Craft V2 is the same and so is the Wing Raider. The Wing Raider though has a single concave running from
mid board to the tail so it's not flat in that regard.

As for the two stage rocker, the back part is completely flat with plane once the you rock the board back.

So you are correct, "What we have here is a failure to communicate." ;)
in progress...

sunsetsailboards

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2022, 10:24:16 AM »
Gunnar touched a bit on this recently.  skip ahead to 34:49 if the timestamp embedding did not work

https://youtu.be/Xx0XEPOuJkw?t=2089

burchas

  • Custom Built
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2022, 04:46:53 PM »
Gunnar touched a bit on this recently.  skip ahead to 34:49 if the timestamp embedding did not work

https://youtu.be/Xx0XEPOuJkw?t=2089

Yeah, he already has that in his current designs but he told me he might go further with that feature.
in progress...

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4856
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2022, 07:40:12 PM »
To me "flat tail" doesn't mean there is no rocker. It means there is no V or concave or other contours commonly seen on tails. This is carried over from surfboard shaping where rocker is separate from the width-wise contours. Simmons boards have rocker and flat tails. Let's not confuse those.

deja vu

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2022, 11:16:43 AM »
I use a SS Shred Sled (5' 9") for really light wind winging with the 8 metre F-One wing.  The board has a very long mast track and even with the foil mast at the front of the track the board requires very little front foot pressure (nowhere near even between the feet -- no issues with my 5' 4" 2021 Sky Wing, which does have some tail rocker).  I checked the tail rocker and from what I'm seeing the Shred Sled has zero; however, it doesn't ride nose down -- just back foot heavy.  Do I shim the stab or shim the mast plate and how best to do either?  Thanks for any suggestions.

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2022, 12:18:26 PM »
consider shimming the mast plate.

Generally if everything flys well and balanced well for your feet but you have trouble during the take off phase - that points to mast plate shimming.

To put it another way - the board wants to ride through the water "slogging" at a certain angle, and transition to planing at a certain angle, and the foil wants to fly at a certain angle.  In a perfect setup, those angles are all the same.  It would be impossible to do it just with the board rocker because the different brands have different mast plate to front foil wing angles.

deja vu

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2022, 02:10:58 PM »
Discussion of tail rocker in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWq8uE6KLpU&t=403s

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25446
    • View Profile
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #87 on: September 13, 2022, 08:51:19 AM »
consider shimming the mast plate.

Generally if everything flys well and balanced well for your feet but you have trouble during the take off phase - that points to mast plate shimming.

To put it another way - the board wants to ride through the water "slogging" at a certain angle, and transition to planing at a certain angle, and the foil wants to fly at a certain angle.  In a perfect setup, those angles are all the same.  It would be impossible to do it just with the board rocker because the different brands have different mast plate-to-front foil wing angles.

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned changing mast position is a way to get from floating in the water to flying on the foil without moving your feet. The same with mast shimming, if you have a substantial tail rocker the foil will act like an elevator on an airplane and tend to push the board down when you're trying to take off. With a rockered board and no shim, you have to push the tail down to have the wing fly in a neutral AOA. Once you're up and flying a neutral wing position is nose up on the board. All this is a lot more obvious when your board is big like mine will probably always be. My smallest wing board is 5'11" X 32. I like float.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 08:53:01 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

clay

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1117
    • View Profile
    • www.clayisland.com
    • Email
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2022, 11:00:13 AM »
however, it doesn't ride nose down -- just back foot heavy. 

In my experience if one is riding back foot heavy the board does indeed ride nose down, the heavy back foot is what is being done to correct or compensate for the nose droop.  My solution would be move the mast forward or feet back.  Other strategies usually introduce drag (more lift) to try to correct the imbalance.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4700
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts
« Reply #89 on: October 05, 2022, 04:58:23 PM »
I built myself a wing board with more rocker. About like what is shown on the new Sky board, and the boards from KA, ridden by Johnnie Heineken and that crew.

I tested it thoroughly in super light winds to confirm efficiency FIRST, before moving on to high wind testing.

Very impressed.

My feeling in super light wind when schlooging (tail sinking more than the nose) is that foil is actually at a better AOA for lowest drag. With a no rocker board, you need to be schlooging deck more level, to have the foil at the better AOA for lowest drag. So bigger, higher volume boards will be better with less rocker. Flatter schloogers.

In slightly more wind, both get up and go easy, so less important.

In higher wind ripping, the extra rocker places the nose higher, making hauling ass less scary. Might even allow me to ride faster.

Water kissing feels less draggy with more rocker. Like there is less distance longitudinally on the bottom kissing the surface.



 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal