Author Topic: Ginxu step hokum  (Read 7139 times)

kwhilden

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Ginxu step hokum
« on: May 27, 2022, 01:59:47 PM »
Just read the hype on KT Boards Ginxu..

The Ginxu’s revolutionary design features the Step Bottom (patented), a cutout on the entire bottom rear 1/3 of the board, including the foil box. This creates an unprecedented connection to the foil, in fact the most direct connection of any foilboard to date. It’s like Gravity Control. For touchdowns, it reduces catching and deceleration leading to getting stuck or falling, because when the bottom of the board now recontacts the water, the rear section and foil are still ‘airborne,’ so you receive Automatic Lift and can easily take back off. Most surprisingly of all it makes it incredibly easy to initially take off, because the moment you get a little bit of speed on the water and the board starts to rise to the waters’ surface, even though the front 2/3rds of the bottom of the board is still in the water, the foil is already out of the water and flying, creating an Ultra Boost, getting you going much quicker than traditional designs.
https://ktsurfing.com/boards-2022/ginxu/

From what I know about wingboard physics. I don't believe these claims at all.  Seems like they are having a hard time explaining what they like about the board. 

And maybe this design just works better on Maui, where there's plenty of wind. I doubt it would work well as a light-wind board.

Thoughts?

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2022, 07:09:06 AM »
Whoah!  Good thing they got that patented right away.  That should quell the frenzy to knock off that beauty of a design.

PonoBill

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2022, 07:38:44 AM »
After spending money on a patent most folks with more sense than money just tuck them away and forget about them. As a tactic to keep people coming after you claiming to own a design you pioneered--they're fine. As a way to make money by going after infringers, you'd best either be a retired lawyer (the CV of most patent trolls) with nothing better to do or have very deep pockets. The ROI is never there otherwise.  There are exceptions, but they are rare. Generally, when someone says they have a design patent I consider them unsophisticated in business or lying (aka marketing).

As foil designs go, this sounds like a simple extension of the wedge tail, which has also previously been done as a step. Might work in some conditions, but the physical explanation of the concept is typical pseudo-science bullshit. I'm good at translating that since I made my living spewing this kind of crap in the tech world, the home of bullshit bingo. This is a cut and try business. No one is doing testing at a level that would explain why some features of the hull work or don't work. My guess is that you'd hate something like that in surf, and might think it was OK in flatter water.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

radair

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2022, 04:13:40 AM »
The hype makes sense to me. Reduce the wetted surface and you reduce friction.

Terms like “automatic lift” and “ultra boost” are simply marketing to try to explain the feeling of that reduced friction (or suction).

My biggest concern would be the strength of the board at the stress riser point, right where it gets thin. KT has apparently been testing this for 2 years and likely figured out the construction needed to build them strong enough.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2022, 05:01:08 AM »
Don’t overlook the radically biased volume distribution to the front. The wrong place for it when schlooging. Translation….tail is going to sink like a rock.

You want a board that floats at the ideal trim angle, to glide onto foil with feet where “they are” when schlooging.

Forget about winging that board in 10-15.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 05:13:02 AM by Dwight (DW) »

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2022, 05:17:00 AM »
They could certainly have put a few Phazers (OK, speed dimples) on there.  It would have been a bit harder to disguise from rampant Maui foilboard shaper espionage, but a cleverly placed, painted mustache could have solved that.

burchas

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2022, 07:24:46 AM »
It looks like SlingShot figured out a better execution for that concept without messing-up volume distribution in their upcoming Wing Raider
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 07:41:12 AM by burchas »
in progress...

Vancouver_foiler

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2022, 07:55:29 AM »
I shaped a sup that had all the measurents from the picture extrapolated.
5'6 29 wide 125(?) liters
I was quite shocked at how stable it was. Slow like a slug, but lifted really, really easily. I'll probably make another with better materials than what I used-i used scraps from around my shop.

PonoBill

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2022, 08:20:59 AM »
I should patent my foil placement design--I put it on the bottom facing down.

The notion of decreasing the surface area is hardly new, any board with chines, nose rocker, stepped rails, wedged, rockered, or stepped tail is trying to do the same thing. But I agree with DW (as usual)--any board that doesn't sit level to the foil while paddling is going to be dealing with a far more significant drag issue than a little more hull in the water. And if you have to get out of the proper trim position for your foil when you're floating the transition from floating to flying demands that you move your feet (or bodyweight if you're strapped), to foil trim at a critical time when lots of shit is going on, or it's not going to work. And your straps are going to be out of optimal position for one mode or the other. OK for the wizards or anyone who can manage a sinker. For me, I'll stick with a board that floats me in foil trim, even though I can move around on a board surprisingly well for a clumsy geezer.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

wingdingjoe

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2022, 09:58:52 AM »
It looks like SlingShot figured out a better execution for that concept without messing-up volume distribution in their upcoming Wing Raider

Yes THIS is seemed amazing at first read! Leave your Tnuts attached to the Foil and just SLIDE it on!
Then I thought about it a little more.. Tried to imagine myself lining up first the front then back nuts as I'm carefully Balancing my precious delicate foil in a windy parking lot... Hmmm...

With the Axis "open hole" mast plate... It's really the same but easier.. Leaving the screws always in the board with their little rubber "keepers" and just sliding the bolts into their slots and tightening... Maybe there is another benefit to these "open ended boxes" on the sshot board that I haven't figured out yet??

burchas

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2022, 05:53:02 PM »
It looks like SlingShot figured out a better execution for that concept without messing-up volume distribution in their upcoming Wing Raider
... Maybe there is another benefit to these "open ended boxes" on the sshot board that I haven't figured out yet??

If you were a proud owner of a GoFoil setup or an M8 user of a NoLimitz mast it would make more since to you.
It's certainly a nice feature to have but at the bottom of the list of my priorities when purchasing a new board.
in progress...

red_tx

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2022, 09:07:53 PM »
and by the subject line I could have sworn this was spam..

So i clicked it.

I'm with DW and am guessing the ass sinks, which is why the front just comes out of the water. There may be something to your foot being that close to the base plate.

-red

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2022, 10:59:39 PM »
I’d be interested to try it. It would be nice to see if it limits touch down crashes. Most of my crashes are high speed touchdowns that are very slow loss of height but grab juuuust more than I can recover from… then I go tumbling.

Only issue I see is that now your mast is an inch shorter, so does it really help unstick if you stick more since you’re closer to the water?

PonoBill

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2022, 07:58:05 AM »
Red: I thought so too, though Ginxu Hokum would be a great name for a Tuvan throatsinging band.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

winddoctor

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Re: Ginxu step hokum
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2022, 08:02:39 AM »
I've not tried one myself and have all the initial doubts about the design as well but guys I've chatted with who have actually ridden them sure seem to like them! For now I'll ride a more conventional KT shape until I'm certain the step tail is the bomb diggity bomb.
6'5" 200 pounds. Armstrong HA1125, HA925, HA725, HS1850, HS1250 Foils. Armstrong 5'11" FG, Quatro WingDrifter 72L, KT 3m, 4m, 5m Armstrong V2 A-Wing 2.5

 


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