Author Topic: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?  (Read 1264 times)

oakfish

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Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« on: May 09, 2022, 06:45:15 AM »
Quick foil comparison question. Anyone ridden both the Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400 front wings?
I currently ride the Slingshot 99cm and love it. I've tried the 84 cm, but just can't get it to fly as regularly. I think I just still need a massive wing at my stage.
I've gotten pretty good with straight line flying back and forth so I'm now working on jibes. However, the Slingshot 99cm just doesn't seem to turn and maintain speed. Likely user error, but I may try a higher performance system to see if that helps.
I'd like to get the Armstrong 2400 set up, but I DO NOT want to end up with a wing that is harder to get up. I'm just now finally comfortable pumping up on foil and do not intend to move to a more difficult wing. Will the Armstrong 2400 fly as easily as the Slingshot 99cm? Anyone have experience with both?

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2022, 07:26:40 AM »
Higher aspect is what makes foils glide farther, and giving you more time to fumble with your wing handling and come away on foil.

Im not saying you need true high aspect, just big wings that are higher in aspect than the older, out dated wings.

The Armstrong mast is not stiff enough for the 2400. It causes instability. Not great for newer wingers.

Demo the Axis BSC-1060. Everyone is different, this might be the magic sauce for you.

gneve_foil

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2022, 07:59:37 AM »
Higher aspect is what makes foils glide farther, and giving you more time to fumble with your wing handling and come away on foil.

Im not saying you need true high aspect, just big wings that are higher in aspect than the older, out dated wings.

The Armstrong mast is not stiff enough for the 2400. It causes instability. Not great for newer wingers.

Demo the Axis BSC-1060. Everyone is different, this might be the magic sauce for you.

100% agree with Dwight. I started my winging journey with the Slingshot Infinity 76 after figuring it out behind the boat. I struggled mightily for a few months as it was heavy and not enough foil for the moderate winds I was going out in. I made the jump to the Axis BSC1060 and it was a gamechanger. Plenty of lift, stable  and very well behaved. I have thought about selling it but dusted it off for a super light (8-10kt) session recently and was able to ride while many stayed on the beach.

I was on the fence about just buying the Infinity 99 front wing but I'm so glad I went with the entire Axis setup.

oakfish

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2022, 08:12:10 AM »
Thanks for the replies. That Axis wing has a significantly smaller surface area than the 99cm wing. I'd like to stick with a big wing.
Anyone have experience with the slingshot 99cm wing and how it's lift compares to other big wings, especially the armstrong 2400?

Hdip

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2022, 08:14:31 AM »
Cm#s dont tell the whole story. Wing shape makes a huge difference. What do you weigh. What wind speed? What size hand wing?

oakfish

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2022, 10:51:30 AM »
190#
Naish 110L
5m doutone slick
13-20 knot winds

I understand that there is more to it than surface area, but I'm using it as a starting point to look at other wings. I don't have the ability to demo wings in my area (is that really a widespread thing?).
I like the lift provided by the 99cm slingshot, so I'm looking for a wing with similar lift that may offer more turning ability. It may not exist, but I don't want to go backwards on the amount of lift the 99cm provides. I spent several frustrating months on the 84cm before moving back to the bigger wing. I know I'll drop size eventually, but conditions in my area aren't consistent. I only get out every 1-2 months.
Thanks!

clay

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2022, 11:17:00 AM »
I'll try an analogy.

I have a GMC full size pickup truck and wondering if I switch to the same size Ford pickup truck I'll be able to turn better?  Also if I leave home in a pickup truck will I be able to turn around and make it home, or do I need a different car for that?

The path of progression for everyone I know is moving from low aspect to a higher aspect wing.  A smaller pickup truck might turn a bit better, it's still a pickup truck.  There is a rough formula of higher aspect wings can be 25-30% smaller than low aspect and feel similar in lift.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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PonoBill

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2022, 07:08:18 PM »
Good analogy. It's  almost pointless to compare wings based on area. People are probably tired of hearing this from me, but the most important factor is speed. High aspect wings have low form drag. They tend to have skinny leading edges, are always narrow, and have less tip turbulence--so they are low drag until they start lifting. So it's easy to get them going faster. You might not notice that because a low aspect wing might be going three MPH while a HA wing would be going 6 mph with the same amount of wing or wave push. 6 MPH is still just a brisk walk vs. 3mph being walking speed, but it's twice the speed, and since velocity increases lift as the square of velocity it's four times the lift.

See the problem? Same area, but one wing can easily be pushed twice as fast so it has four times the lift. Or more likely, your 2000 sq. cm low aspect wing at 3mph has half the lift a 1000 sq. cm wing has at 6mph. The only wing design factor involved is that it's easy to push the HA to double the speed for takeoff.

I prove this every day with my 1000cm.sq. HA wing and my 220 pounds, looking like a gooney bird trying to lift off. Full speed ahead Mr. Sulu.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

oakfish

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2022, 05:08:42 AM »
Ok, fair enough. Removing the area measurement from the equation.
Anyone have experience with the 99cm wing that can suggest another wing with similar lift that I could consider? Definitely interested in Armstrong from all the internet hype, but open to others such as the Axis foil suggested by DW.
I'm trying to avoid the usual trap of falling for a higher performance piece of equipment that exceeds my abilities. Just want to try another foil that will be similarly easy to lift.
Thanks all!

radair

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2022, 07:05:16 AM »
I spent a bunch of time on the SS i84 and rode the 99 a few times. If you're interested in Armstrong, the HS1850 would be a great foil for you. It is a mid-aspect foil with heaps of lift but also lots of stability and turns great. I still use it for very low wind days.

High aspect foils are great but have considerably less stability than mid-aspect and are not what I would recommend for someone starting to learn jibes.

dns

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2022, 08:58:26 AM »
At your weight the 2400 is WAY too huge. The 1850 is a good wing to learn on, but since you can already get up on foil the 1550v2 would be a better choice. It pumps up on foil just as easily as the 1850, but has much better glide and speed without getting into the "stall and fall" issue that the HA wings have.

VB_Foil

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2022, 10:32:05 AM »
I'm only 142 lbs and I spent a whole year on the 2400 while learning.  I don't think it's a bad option for guaranteeing max foil time.  As DW said, there may be a bit of wobble at your weight...mainly if you are going straight with out giving it any input.   

It has very stable flight characteristics and great lifting characteristics for what it is. 

The slower speed of the wing is good for maintaining composure in stronger conditions or when learning gybes etc.  Going 5mph faster into a gybe with a mid aspect or high aspect wing is not always the best recipe for success when learning, despite the longer glide you get with those wings. 

If I learned all over again today?  Would I prefer to grab the HA1325 or HA1525 over the 2400?  Not sure, especially with the katana like appearance of the HA wings lol. 

Im a 59 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   45 34L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
  
  

Foils: Armstrong HS625, HS850, HA725, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HA1325
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

(Excessive, I know)

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2022, 11:03:53 AM »
Not to rub salt in your wounds, but the i84 is a huge wing as well. I learned on it. I'd like it back for a few minutes just to feel what it's like again. I do think you're right in keeping things fun and staying on the wing style you know, especially since you tried the smaller wing and had trouble.

I was just beginning to get real good (for a beginner) on the 84 before I switched, knowing exactly what the foil was going to do at low speeds and turning sharp, etc. If I did it again, I would have stayed on the i84 wing longer until my transitions were + 75%.

The transition to my 8AR 1300cm wing (Axis HPS 980) from the 3AR i84 +2,000cm took a few minutes before I could fly it, but many many session before I could consistently get my jibes back and feel confident the way I was on the 84. The amazing glide kept me motivated, and now I only have 10AR wings under 900cm. It's sort of a one-way street at the moment from low AR --> high AR wings. But we'll hit the high water mark soon, I think.

Maybe you are smart in taking smaller steps.

When these slingshot foils came out the reviews were, "You can take a nap during the jibes the lift is so great" and that sort of thing, so keep that in mind when people are shitting on them. Also, the HA wings need speed to stay flying, but they hold the speed longer. The lower AR wings lose the speed faster, but don't need as much to keep flying. That said, the high AR wings win in terms or sipping a cup of tea on jibes, but they aren't necessary to be able to tack and jibe.

What I'm trying to say in lots of words is I would recommend sticking with what you have until you are nailing your jibes rather than spend $2k on the same/similar wing. Then work on your tacks. When you are nailing jibes and tacks, then take the leap to something 1/2 the size and higher aspect. Then when you are flailing on your new HA wing, you can remember that you already know how to do all this stuff, you just need minor adjustments. This way you will progress faster, and avoid having multiple brands and similar equipment all of which you will sell in a year. Don't go to a smaller HA wing unless you are stoked, because it may end in frustration. If $ is no object, then the smaller steps may be worth while, or if you want to transition systems, the investment would be worth it since you can always pick up a used big front wing and sell it for what you bought it for since there will be people who want it to learn on in the future.

I just looked at slinghshot's new wings, and they have some cool HA smaller wings, but I don't see much new stuff in your size range, unfortunately.


VB_Foil

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2022, 12:45:43 PM »
Thats some great advice above.
Im a 59 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   45 34L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
  
  

Foils: Armstrong HS625, HS850, HA725, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HA1325
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

(Excessive, I know)

GL

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Re: Anyone ridden a Slingshot 99cm and Armstrong 2400?
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2022, 04:12:41 AM »
I have the 99 and the 84. I much prefer the 99. I have not tried the Armstrong 2400. I have been quite happy on my Slingshot foils. I have not experienced any problems with them. I recently purchased the Quantum 100 and 85 as I wanted to try something higher aspect but not high aspect. Based on my experience I think you might like the 100. It starts for me almost as early as the the 99 but is faster and less draggy. So once up on foil I have less pull on my arms. It is a bit less stable but it is not unstable. If the wind drops I seem to be able carry on foiling in lighter wind than the 99 and keep my speed up. I find it turns a bit faster. It is also easier to keep the foil in the water so very few breaeches.  This might be a cheaper way to get what you are after. I use it with the smaller stabilizer. I weigh 81 kg.

 


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