Author Topic: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?  (Read 8942 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2022, 11:49:58 PM »
The strap-on centerboard you saw might have been this.  https://www.foilingworld.co.uk/accessories-1/sup-centreboard. It looks like an inefficient design compared to the supwinder. It's just a flat board cut from a piece of plastic. The straps must create a lot of drag.

No, it was something the slingshot guys were playing with. It was quite a while ago, and my memory sucks, but I think it was Tony hizself. They, and about everyone else that makes wind/water toys are in my neighborhood. The fin looks like the same one I saw. flat straps aren't all that draggy, and you can cover them with packing tape both to keep them from moving and to get a little better flow.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

clay

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2022, 11:00:23 AM »
I canít, for reasons of marital stability, get a wing, a board, and a foil all at once...I have an 11í by 31Ē SUP I could use and a 9í by 28Ē one. I have some race SUPs too

I read in some self help book to ask "how can I?" instead of saying "I can't"

I haven't touched my SUPs in years, only surfed once or twice in the past 4 years since I got hooked on foil.  So one could sell all those future dust collectors and get a second hand complete wing foil setup.

Just a wing might get one to 30 sessions, beyond that what would be the point?  Might as well windsurf if not gonna get a foil.

Relationship wise I would be transparent and put my desires on the table - hey honey I want to get into wing foiling and I want to do this in a way that nurtures our relationship and that you are comfortable with.  Can we find a win win?
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2022, 04:56:25 PM »
I sold two SUPs to help pay for my foil gear. Kept one, but now that I'm foiling, I really don't care if I ever surf again so I'll probably get around to selling that one as well. I gave up flatwater and downwind SUP a long time ago.
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

daswusup

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2022, 06:44:14 PM »
winging on a sup is someone passing you a skinny joint at a party for the first time. It's a gateway. Nobody in the history of mainstream winging(3.5 yrs) has ever just stopped there. If they did stop there then they are not a good human and don't know the difference in right and wrong. Absolutely, start there. You will be entertained for an hour.  Absolutely buy a used Slingshot Hoverglide 84 for $350 and any foilboard 130L ish or more for $400. Life is short. Don't die before you learn to wingFOIL.

bretrwarner

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2022, 01:24:40 PM »
Thanks for all the input everyone. Iíll be honest, I canít imagine selling the quiver of SUPs I spent these past years acquiring/building, but Iíll keep an open mind and look more seriously at the full setup. After all, I certainly donít want to be a bad person.

spindrift

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2022, 02:39:05 PM »
I don't like to rain on the wing sup parade. There are a few contributors that support wing sup and I value their point of view. My own experience is that a wing and skateboard is a lot more fun. I agree with those that suggest you find a used 130ish board and older foil if at all possible. I wish I would have taken this advice instead of buying new.



Life Rewards Movement

VB_Foil

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2022, 08:44:43 AM »
I say go for it for sure, especially if you have kids.  I have slapped a supwinder on my wife's 12'6" touring Sup by Boardworks (I think) and it is a blast to sail around.  My 4 year old daughter loved riding between my legs.  Great addition to bring to the beach and get out on the water in the slightest consistent breeze.

The 12'6" is difficult to gybe and tack and requires shimmying your feet quite a bit to control direction.  It is almost hard to go downwind, super easy to go upwind. 

Last time I was out last summer, the local windsurfer was out and I think I was having more fun.

Iím a 5í9Ē 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4í5Ē 34L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
  
  

Foils: Armstrong HS625, HS850, HA725, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HA1325
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

(Excessive, I know)

Dusk Patrol

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2022, 09:17:05 AM »
Question - Will a foil board head up wind when not on foil? 

Or is the speed and lack of friction when on foil necessary?   

In other words, if Bretrw went the route of getting a full foil set up to learn on, would he still be facing the upwind walk until he could fly it?   
RS 14x26; JL Destroyer 9'8; BluePlanet 9'4; JL SF 8'6

PonoBill

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2022, 10:31:04 AM »
A truly useful comment from Clay, kudos.

And yes, a foil board with foil that isn't foiling will go upwind like a champ--it's got one hell of a keel. At any beginner spot, like Kahalui harbor, you'll see half the folks trudging upwind with their wing and foil board, and half just starting from anywhere, foiling for two hours and coming back to the same spot they started. The difference isn't gear, or years of practice--it's a couple of weeks. I can go upwind nicely on my knees, which is a damned good thing because my knee is giving me problems lately and I need a good gust to use the wing to lever myself to my feet.

The easiest and most direct path to get into foiling is with somewhat oversized foil gear, which fortunately is cheap on the market because everyone who gets antsy about progression sells theirs as soon as they can use something smaller. It's silly, you can use that oversized gear for years, but you get to take advantage of the silliness.

there's nothing wrong with winging around on a sup, or an old windsurfer, or anything you can get to work. Fun is fun. I'd do it if that's what I had to choose from, and you could get very good at it. But it's really step one. Lots of people say "learn on a skateboard" which is fine if you're young and made of rubber. But my knee problems and everything wrong with my left leg all stems from ripping up the tendons in my left ankle about 35 years ago. Water is forgiving.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jondrums

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2022, 01:00:05 PM »
I think winging on a sup will be boring really quick.  You might well have a ton of fun on a skateboard.  I'm using a "carveboard" that I bought used for under $100 and I have just as much fun and maybe more fun than I do on flatwater with my foil.  (sorry, it definitely does not beat being in the surf/swell)

seastudent

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2022, 02:19:16 PM »
I started with a real throwback. A Mistral Windglider. Basically an inflatable barge. Super stable,cushy and easy. Only used it once to see if I could sail upwind with the wing. I could. Next went to plowing on my 110l board with the foil. I could also stay upwind. Then learn to foil. I found the Windglider on Craigslist. I've only had to patch it three times! I'm planning on teaching my kids with it now.

Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2022, 03:28:05 PM »
I have considerable sailing and windsurfing experience and I can say with certainty that my foil board does not slog upwind well at all. It will do it but walking/wading is much faster. If I had no shore to do the walk, I would give up on foiling because it wouldn't be worth the effort. That's just me. Maybe some board/foil combinations slog upwind better than others.

My board goes upwind great on foil but I'm not quite there yet. That's what I'm practicing now. A few more sessions and I'll be able to consistently stay upwind of where I launched. Walking is a drag.

When I get to the point where I'm foiling consistently, I'll downsize to something slightly smaller. I really like the 125L Naish S26 that I'm on now. I might get the next size down.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 04:22:54 PM by Badger »
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

red_tx

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2022, 11:03:20 AM »
Yes. Yes it is plenty fun.

+1 to jondrums and the skate. (Super important in my opinion *if you know how to skate). I actually went wing skating yesterday with my Dart 3M and Dart 5M... sick lines in the parkinglot and the best way to learn how to handle the wing in my opinion. I have the Waterborne Skate setup which is similar and more sexy than jon's.

To daswusups suggestion about the $350 Slingshot gear laying around.. I have it laying around. let me know. Maybe cheaper than that..

Winging on the standie allows you to hold the wing above the water and, then allows you to practice basic out and backs to the launch which are crucial.

We are talking about sailing basics also here, and this allows a safe way to learn the ole out and back.

Have you seen Robby Naish smacking surf with a wing on a standie? Its awesome.
-red


PonoBill

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2022, 03:19:48 PM »
There's a simple trick to going upwind with a wing--even slogging--that doesn't occur to windsurfers very often. When you want to go upwind in good wind with a windsurfer you put a lot of pressure on the upwind rail, lean the mast way back, and pull the sail in with your back hand. I don't really think of it that way, but it's physically what we do.

None of that works with a wing and a foil. Generally, you need to keep most of your weight along the spine of the board, bend your knees (hard for me) and raise your back hand a little bit. That brings the bottom of the wing in closer to the board and lets you steer upwind more. It's very weird the first time you try it, and it's easier to do with a harness, but if you have that element consciously in your repertoire you can quickly be one of the people that somehow goes upwind much closer to the wind direction.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jondrums

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2022, 06:25:54 PM »
Interesting - I found the best way to slog upwind is to dig in the windward rail of the board to tilt the main foil to get lift in the upwind direction.  I think the foil wing is a very efficient keel, better than using the mast as a keel which is all you have when the board isn't rolled.  In addition, the flat bottom of the board acts as a directional keel.  I used to do exactly what you said with my board slogging on a windsurfing rig and its where I got the idea. 

Agreed that you need to get the wing leading edge closer to vertical to act as an efficient sail.  It helps me a ton to consciously bring my front hand up and forward and my back hand even higher

 


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