Author Topic: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?  (Read 8938 times)

bretrwarner

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I apologize if this is touched on somewhere else, but when I searched I only found posts from 2019 and I know wings have evolved quite a bit since then. I canít, for reasons of marital stability, get a wing, a board, and a foil all at once. If I go with just a wing with a SUP is it still any fun(I know this a super relative term )or will I just be wishing for a foil right away? I will be on mostly lakes. Wind speed is pretty consistently between 10-20 mph. Iím 180 lbs. I have an 11í by 31Ē SUP I could use and a 9í by 28Ē one. I have some race SUPs too but Iím assuming my dugout race sup is a no go.
I would love to hear any thoughts, recs on a wing, etc

juandesooka

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2022, 12:22:32 PM »
Answer: it depends.   ;D

If you are in a windy location already, and that is your best and only option to get out there and make the most of it, then for sure it's fun!  The resource is there, not too much an investment to add a wing to enjoy it. Giv'r!

The it depends part is that you'll only be scratching the surface of possibilities, so assuming the wind bug grabs you, expect a series of reinvestments over next 1-3 years until you have the full rig. 

SUP is harder to stay upwind. You'll learn to lean into the rail or maybe invest in a strap on daggerboard.  Or find an old windsurfer with a retractable dagger, betcha your neighbours all have one in the shed rafters.

SUP will be harder to make work in lighter winds, as the efficiency of the foil is what makes it come alive. As you become a wind chaser, you'll find it is not as windy as you thought in strength or frequency.  The dreaded wind is 8kt (10-12mph) where it's not realistically windy enough to play in but too windy for fun paddling etc. 

Wings: plenty of less-expensive used gen1 and gen2 options out there now.  There were a few early duds but pretty much all name brands now have decent quality workable gear.

Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2022, 12:49:42 PM »
It's definitely fun and a great way to learn the wing. A friend of mine is doing just that. He can't afford a foilboard yet so he bought a 6m wing and a cheap soft top SUP 10'6 x 32". I've used it a bunch of times and it's a blast. He has the sUPWINDer keel on it which is a necessity for going upwind. Without the keel, going upwind would be almost impossible.

You want a board with a very flat rocker. Surf SUPs with too much rocker will be slow. My friend's board is the Boardworks Surge.  https://boardworkssurf.com/products/surge-pkg-106-848201015979  It's extremely stable and gets up some pretty good speed in high winds. It might be even faster if it were narrower. You want a fairly high volume to provide enough float that the tail doesn't sink and slow the board down.

I've tried a number of sailboards with daggerboards winging and surprisingly none of them would go upwind. They just don't work with a wing. A flat-rockered SUP with a keel is what you want.

Learning the wing and foil at the same time can be very frustrating because you can't really go upwind on a foilboard unless you are flying the foil. Learning the wing on a SUP first will be much easier allowing you to sail continuously without having to walk back upwind every 20 minutes. When you finally do get a foilboard, you'll be able to concentrate more on the foiling and less on the winging. My friend is starting his second year SUPwinging and he's still enjoying it.

A 6m wing would be good for 10 to 20 mph. My friend uses his 6m even when it's nuking 30 although a 5m might be preferable for over 20.

I've been learning to wingfoil on a foilboard. Having to walk back upwind really slows down the learning process but it's still fun. It might have taken fewer sessions had I started on a wingSUP.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 01:48:50 PM by Badger »
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

bretrwarner

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2022, 02:38:08 PM »
How far up does the keel fin go? I ask because I am in the middle of stripping a hollow wood 12í6Ē, but itís not too late to put a backing for a fin box. From what you say about a low rocker board Iím thinking the one Iím making might be really fun with a wing.

Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2022, 05:12:10 PM »
For a typical all-around SUP, they say to put the SUPwinder keel 75cm from the center of the rear fin track.  https://slingshotsports.com/products/sup-winder

I'm not sure how that would relate to your 12'6. It might work okay that way or you might want it different. You could ask the guys at Slingshot and see what they say.

If using a fin box, a deep windsurfing fin might make a good keel.


https://youtu.be/B7FLcQy8wo0
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 05:28:21 PM by Badger »
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2022, 07:32:22 PM »
Curious, what area of the country are you in?

Dusk Patrol

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2022, 07:57:33 PM »
I actually just had that conversation  with Slingshot -

Me:  Is there a preferred length of SUP to use with your supWINDer fin? I've inherited a wing, and am in the market for a SUP to use with the supWINDer. Thanks.

Slingshot: Thanks for your inquiry. One of the great things about this product is how versatile it is. It works on everything from a smaller 7 or 8 ft. board up to 11 ft. It will work on a longer SUP, but will not be as easy to tack or jibe.

Me: Thanks. Follow up question: the video states you want to be sure to place the supWINDer 75 cm from the middle of the boardís fin box.
Wouldnít the supWINDer location vary, depending on the length of the SUP?
And if so, whatís the rule of thumb?

Slingshot: You place the SUPwinder farther back on the board than you would think and you stand quite far back on it as well when winging.  Surprisingly I don't think that distance varies, but to double-check on a shorter board you can put your front foot just behind the center handle, figure out your stance and put it right between your two feet. Hope that makes sense.
RS 14x26; JL Destroyer 9'8; BluePlanet 9'4; JL SF 8'6

Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2022, 06:06:55 AM »
Slingshot: You place the SUPwinder farther back on the board than you would think and you stand quite far back on it as well when winging.  Surprisingly I don't think that distance varies, but to double-check on a shorter board you can put your front foot just behind the center handle, figure out your stance and put it right between your two feet. Hope that makes sense.


That makes sense to me although you might want to also consider the volume in the tail.

Last summer I was thinking of putting the keel on a Starboard Blend 11'3 x 30 @ 170 liters. I placed a piece of tape on the deck where 75cm would be and took the board out on the water. Then I centered my stance over the tape. The tail sank considerably and the board became very unstable. That might be okay in a high-speed planing situation but would be very slow and unstable in lighter winds. So I moved my stance forward just enough that the deck was level and decided that the keel would be best a little more forward which I think came to about 90cm. I ended up not buying the board so I didn't get a chance to test it.

Before attaching the keel, it would be a good idea to go out on the water first and stand over where you imagine the keel would be. You want your stance to be centered over the keel. If you stand forward of the keel, the board will want to turn downwind.

Looking at the Starboard Wingboard 4-in-1, they seem to place their keel more towards the center of the board.  https://sup.star-board.com/wing-boarding/wingboard-4-in-1/

For best performance, I would want the keel to be as far back as possible while still allowing the deck to be reasonably level. That way, you'll be able to get back on the tail in high winds yet still be able to easily sail upwind when the wind is light.

.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 06:56:52 AM by Badger »
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

PonoBill

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2022, 10:28:54 AM »
Don't go by the location of a centerboard on a windsurfer or all-around board like the old Starboard 12-6. The center of effort on a windsurfer is very close to where the mast is. The center of effort of a wing is somewhere between your feet. For maneuvering and going upwind you want the centerboard center slightly ahead of the center of effort. For stability under "sail," you want it slightly behind. The best thing about the supwinder is you can move it.

Used wings are generally cheap. Talk to the guys that have been doing it longest and you can probably get a big wing (5 or 6M) for dirt cheap or free. I generally give mine away when I'm done with them. I'd be embarrassed to sell them. Admin knows why since he said my quiver looked like "a hobo's handkerchief". Yes, but they were still perfectly usable for learning or playing.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2022, 10:53:35 AM »
The best thing about the supwinder is you can move it.

Bill, the supwinder is fixed and permanent.  Once you stick it on, it can't be moved.

.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 11:19:26 AM by Badger »
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

PonoBill

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2022, 11:05:38 AM »
Hmmm, well that's too bad, either I saw a different version or a prototype. The one I saw is attached with straps.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2022, 11:37:23 AM »
The strap-on centerboard you saw might have been this.  https://www.foilingworld.co.uk/accessories-1/sup-centreboard

It looks like an inefficient design compared to the supwinder. It's just a flat board cut from a piece of plastic. The straps must create a lot of drag.


https://youtu.be/vinJEOFIgy4


There's also the Duotone Drift Stopper. I don't see this working well either.  https://shop.duotonesports.com/en-gb/add-on-drift-stopper-14200--8010


https://youtu.be/S6lRZMQdswE

« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 12:14:18 PM by Badger »
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

Dusk Patrol

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2022, 04:13:34 PM »
Back to OP BretRW's scenario: Not acquiring all the gear to begin with.

Would a short-ish foil board with like a 15" tuttle based windsurfing racing/slalom fin allow him to sail upwind?

Then just add the mast/foil later...

« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 04:35:59 PM by Dusk Patrol »
RS 14x26; JL Destroyer 9'8; BluePlanet 9'4; JL SF 8'6

Badger

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2022, 06:46:40 PM »
My guess is that putting a 15" fin in the foil mast area would not help it go upwind.

But having a 15" tuttle fin near the center of the board with two small rear fins in the tracks might be interesting. I think my 6'4 Naish would fly with that setup and possibly go upwind pretty well.

I wonder how it would foil with a 15" center fin. It might be good for beginners to help when slogging upwind and avoid the walk of shame.

.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 07:12:58 PM by Badger »
Naish S27 Hover 110L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp 4m/5m, F-1 CWC 7m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 65yo

bretrwarner

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Re: Wing with a SUP on a lake? Is it any fun or just for learning or?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2022, 07:52:13 PM »
Curious, what area of the country are you in?

Iím in Southern California. About 45 minutes East of LA

 


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