Author Topic: Repair Advice  (Read 9262 times)

toolate

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Repair Advice
« on: March 20, 2022, 02:51:57 PM »
Bad rail ding Jimmy Lewis Carbon Sup. 3 cm into core.

Questions:
1) what is the best way to cut out the damage? Exacto? Dremel and if so what tool?
2) what should i replace the core foam with? Gorilla Glue?
3) i never use carbon to repair my carbon boards. So far no problem. Is that reasonable?


THANKS


PonoBill

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2022, 03:28:17 PM »
You may not need or want to cut out the damage. A picture would help.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

toolate

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2022, 03:58:38 PM »
sorry: pic here

TallDude

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2022, 05:43:45 PM »
Razor blade two vertical lines in the EVA pad about 3" from either edge of the damage. Make the cuts to about an inch above the upper small ding. Use a flat blade on a multi-tool to carefully peel the EVA pad up, then tape it out of the way. You can clean the edge of the hole up, but it doesn't need to be square or round. Pick any loose foam out of the hole and cut away any loose layers / material. Mask two widths of 2" wide masking tape around 2" away from the edge of the hole. Add a tiny bit of water to about a tablespoon of Gorilla Glue and whip it up. You can just hand stir it fast, I do it all the time. Put the board on edge so you are pouring the GG straight down into the hole. In about 6 hours it will be expanded, but I'd let it sit overnight for a hard cure. Trim it off with a saw or small serrated knife. Sand all the paint off down to the glass. Then glass it with a couple of layers of 4 or 6 oz glass. Sand it, paint it, and glue the pad back down.
 
Just did this last week.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

toolate

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2022, 06:05:29 PM »
thanks Tall guy. that is rail tape you are seeing not EVA pad ..so i might be mistaking your meaning here

toolate

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2022, 06:10:52 PM »
so dont worry about removing broken material unless it is really loose?

TallDude

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2022, 08:03:05 PM »
Yes. Just sand down or cut off anything sticking up above the finished surface. Basically anything that would prevent the glass from laying down flush with the finished surface.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

surfcowboy

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2022, 09:56:14 PM »
TD did you foam that and then push the box into all that glue foam? Or did you harden that and route it out?

TallDude

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2022, 11:45:38 PM »
I cut the eps out wider than the surface hole by about 1" each side. Poured the foam, let it set, then routed it out with my long box template. Sanded the long box to rough it up, epoxy set with some 4 oz under it and lapping onto the surface. Locks it in solid. Helps prevent leaks around the box as well. Set my leash plugs the same way.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

SupSimcoe

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2022, 06:32:28 AM »
JL Carbon are full PVC sandwich. Real pain to fix properly. Have to remove the top layer and PVC 1 inch wider than the damage to the inner layer. Then you have to fix foam on inner core and then do a carbon layer repair. After that is complete you have to repair the PVC foam and finish and then you can carbon the top layer and sand and finish and paint.

I just took my JL rail to a professional as it was a lot of work.
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surfcowboy

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2022, 07:27:36 AM »
This thread has made me think about lateral stability a bit. I'm going to add maybe a 1" by 1/2" thick ring of this HD foam around the boxes to give just a little more lateral grab to the skin. This board will likely get bounced into shorebreak a few times. Might as well shore it up.

TallDude

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2022, 09:38:23 AM »
JL Carbon are full PVC sandwich. Real pain to fix properly. Have to remove the top layer and PVC 1 inch wider than the damage to the inner layer. Then you have to fix foam on inner core and then do a carbon layer repair. After that is complete you have to repair the PVC foam and finish and then you can carbon the top layer and sand and finish and paint.

I just took my JL rail to a professional as it was a lot of work.
For a little hole like too late's, you don't need to match the existing build. You could drill a hundred 1" holes spaced apart all over the board and you wouldn't affect it's structural integrity or even impact resistance. The PVC sandwich adds a ton of strength, but it also prevents the board from flexing. Boards that don't flex, don't surf well. For race boards and foil boards it's great. It's just a simple repair. You can spend a lot of time and money V-bagging a little piece of PVC in a hole and match the carbon weight and weave, but it's pointless for a little hole in a painted board.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

PonoBill

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2022, 10:23:21 AM »
I agree with Talldude, I'd never try to preserve the structure of a board to fix a ding--even a bad one. All you're really looking to do is cap the hole so it doesn't leak. If you broke the board in half or folded it, it might be worthwhile doing what SupSimcoe suggests, but this isn't that.

You can trim the RSPRO tape as tall dude suggests, or you can actually remove it, set it aside somewhere where it won't collect stuff on the adhesive side and most of all, won't fold up and stick to itself. If you're careful about that it can be reapplied once you're done. I've swapped RSPRO rail tape between boards numerous times.

But yes, I wouldn't trim that back aggressively, I'd just pick out the loose stuff, and you don't even need to be too religious about that. the rough edges and remaining bits of PVC, underglass, and carbon will help the Gorilla Glue adhere even better. The only critical part of the repair is sanding off the repair foam and paint from the area you are patching so you have a clean, solid, smooth surface for the glass to adhere to. Since the area is small I'd use table wet 6 oz glass and two layers of 4 oz for a sanding layer. the do the standard sand smooth and hotcoat thing. 

Alternatively, you can use one 6 z and one 4 oz with the 4 oz a little extra wet. Do the "poor man's vac bag thing by taping a square of plastic (not flimsy stuff, it need to have a little firmness to smoothly contour. I use the same 3 mil plastic I use for table wetting) to the bottom of the board, pulling it up tight against the repair while it's still wet and taping it in place on the top of the board. Use tape to pull the plastic tight on both edges and then rub lightly with a credit card to get the repair smooth. This method is a little tricky to get right, but you can forego sanding and hot coating completely. Stick your RSPRO back on once the glass is fully set.

The ends of the RSPRO might tend to lift. Tape it down and set it in the sun. The stuff is weird, it might take a day or two, but once it reglues itself, it stays put.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 10:36:05 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SupSimcoe

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2022, 11:51:39 AM »
Looked like the outer area is about 6 inches long and a few inches wide of actual damage but I could be wrong. Damage under paint can go way further than what you see before sanding.

When I damaged my JL rail the outside only looked 3 inches long but when I got into the inner layer was actually worse. They are very thin carbon layers on these boards. I agree that one could just remove all the damaged inside and outside layers and just do a single layer repair. I prefer to fix things 100 percent but its always up to the owner.
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toolate

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Re: Repair Advice
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2022, 05:26:43 PM »
Thanks for the details Ponobill!
One thing is though that jimmy ises a layer of auto paint so when removing he RSPro even with heat the paint comes off!

one question: everytime i mix Gorilla Glue i get too big bubbles.

Not sure what i am doing wrong? I only spritz H2O
I might not have used a dremel to mix it?


I agree with Talldude, I'd never try to preserve the structure of a board to fix a ding--even a bad one. All you're really looking to do is cap the hole so it doesn't leak. If you broke the board in half or folded it, it might be worthwhile doing what SupSimcoe suggests, but this isn't that.

You can trim the RSPRO tape as tall dude suggests, or you can actually remove it, set it aside somewhere where it won't collect stuff on the adhesive side and most of all, won't fold up and stick to itself. If you're careful about that it can be reapplied once you're done. I've swapped RSPRO rail tape between boards numerous times.

But yes, I wouldn't trim that back aggressively, I'd just pick out the loose stuff, and you don't even need to be too religious about that. the rough edges and remaining bits of PVC, underglass, and carbon will help the Gorilla Glue adhere even better. The only critical part of the repair is sanding off the repair foam and paint from the area you are patching so you have a clean, solid, smooth surface for the glass to adhere to. Since the area is small I'd use table wet 6 oz glass and two layers of 4 oz for a sanding layer. the do the standard sand smooth and hotcoat thing. 

Alternatively, you can use one 6 z and one 4 oz with the 4 oz a little extra wet. Do the "poor man's vac bag thing by taping a square of plastic (not flimsy stuff, it need to have a little firmness to smoothly contour. I use the same 3 mil plastic I use for table wetting) to the bottom of the board, pulling it up tight against the repair while it's still wet and taping it in place on the top of the board. Use tape to pull the plastic tight on both edges and then rub lightly with a credit card to get the repair smooth. This method is a little tricky to get right, but you can forego sanding and hot coating completely. Stick your RSPRO back on once the glass is fully set.

The ends of the RSPRO might tend to lift. Tape it down and set it in the sun. The stuff is weird, it might take a day or two, but once it reglues itself, it stays put.

 


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