Author Topic: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999  (Read 9310 times)

SUPeter

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2022, 06:59:36 AM »
Having made my own foil rigs for longer than I should have, I can honestly say (when I was mature enough to have my own production rig)  it was a toss up between Axis and Armstrong as far as durability.  Both systems seemed to be pretty popular around New England.  What flipped me into the Axis camp (ART999 -possibly?) was the strong, simple and reproduceable design of the fuselage to wing connection.  I could easily convert foils I've made to the Axis fuselage. Getting orders filled quickly was also a great benefit.  Also, i very much dislike having parts which can become fused like the mast to fuse connection that Armstrong offers. Once sand gets in, problems can occur.  I also saw a buddies Armstrong fuselage bend at the tail bolts.  Both, very good well engineered systems but I prefer the simplicity of Axis. 


Northern foil monkey

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2022, 04:19:56 PM »
Since it has been a couple months since I swapped and in a nutshell I have no regrets moving to Axis and I am loving the ART series foils. but in the interest of not being a fan-boy of either camp thought I would update with my honest opinion/review/comparison pros and cons of each. 

I ended up going with:
-ALU 19mm 90cm
-Carbon 86cm (because I got offered a used one so thought worth a try)
-Ultrashort black fuse
-400 progressive tail
-ART999
-ART1099
-(hoping to soon get ART899)


Axis Pros
-It just rides far better, and I tested it against the Armstrong 925 as well, the ART999 was both faster and more user friendly that the Army HA foils, the ART wings are incredible.
999 pretty much replaces both my old 1050 and 1550 Armstrong for wind range, it out-glides them both, turns almost as well, will foil in lighter winds than the 1550 (once flying), and have been out in 35+kts and not found it max wind yet. 
1099 is an entirely different beast, I find it a bit dull on flat water, but it is great for gliding through wind holes, once on foil you can pretty much stay up forever, but its happy place is small waves where the glide is endless but it still turns far better than should be possible for this span.
799 (just a few trial runs) was surprisingly easy to ride, although a step up in performance was not hard or scary at all, but think at 105kg I am just a bit heavy for it to be useful to me.
-The price - so much cheaper than Armstrong
-The range of products is huge, and the amount of cheaper used gear on the market is huge - Axis riders do love to change gear alot!

What I love about Armstrong vs Axis
-The build quality and finish just feels better in every way, I broke a tip of my Axis 400, just clipping a fence post carrying my board, and have put a number of small scratches in the foils already, and I don't even know how.  I ran my Armstrong setup onto a rock reef a couple times and barely left a mark.
-Set and forget no messing about with tefgel, no rinsing salt off, no drying things before packing away, no worrying about anything rotting/corroding/seizing.
-The pack includes all covers, all bags, titanium screws - no hidden costs.
-I could do everything on my 1550 without having to swap foils, I never even changed a tail wing and it did everything I wanted it to do as-is. I can feel myself being pulled into the Axis arms race of having to buy different foils for different situations and have a quiver of tail wings etc.

AXIS Carbon vs Alu mast
To my surprise I prefer the Alu mast.  The carbon noticeably both faster, more lively and lighter, but... seems to get speed wobbles when gunning it, and it feels generally less stable.  The Carbon is now for sale.

Armstrong vs Axis mast feel
The scientific wobble test on the beach tells you nothing and it's not all just about stiffness, there is something about the flex patterns in that Armstrong mast that just works. The Armstrong mast feels less stiff on the beach, however in the water somehow feels better than the Axis carbon imho. 
The Axis Alu however feels super direct, super stable and controlled, even gunning feels super safe, not a wobble, although I can feel the extra drag and weight. Hopefully Axis next mast is a light fast carbon mast that feels like their alloy.

As an interesting side note it seems that Armstrong 85cm was 4cm longer than the Axis 86cm when all set up.

All just my opinion and my 2cents, but I love the Axis stuff to ride if they could match Armstrongs business and build we would have the perfect NZ foil company!


jondrums

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2022, 07:52:53 PM »
I've decided that the axis ART 899, 999, and 1099 is pretty much the perfect quiver for my 95kg.   Huge range between the three foils and they do everything well.

Hdip

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2022, 08:07:57 AM »
Hopefully Axis next mast is a light fast carbon mast that feels like their alloy.

I'm reading between the lines here. But, Dwight just sold his AXIS carbon masts for cheap. He typically has the gear to replace whatever he's selling already. I'm taking that as a good sign. :)

jondrums

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2022, 06:58:00 PM »
NoLimitz now has an axis version, and looks incredible.  Lower drag, light and plenty stiff.

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2022, 10:55:25 AM »
Hopefully Axis next mast is a light fast carbon mast that feels like their alloy.

I'm reading between the lines here. But, Dwight just sold his AXIS carbon masts for cheap. He typically has the gear to replace whatever he's selling already. I'm taking that as a good sign. :)

I saw an instagram post of what looked like an axis carbon mast with no red on it- all black "900." Seems early for a new mast from them since I think they just released their V2 less than a year ago. I've had issues with bubbling on the finish on my 86cm carbon. I polished it, then had problems with cavitating. I sanded it with trizac 3000 and it seems to have helped.

I wonder if this is why oceanpixels and others use the aluminum masts.

Hdip

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2022, 12:11:11 PM »
I think once you're over 200 lbs. it's just going to be terribly hard to beat the AXIS 19MM for stiffness. Oxeanpixels is a big guy. He stays up for 45 minutes in the surf, so it obviously works for him.

Beasho

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2022, 08:00:14 PM »
NoLimitz now has an axis version, and looks incredible.  Lower drag, light and plenty stiff.

Please share!

;D  See link here to NoLimitz system:

https://www.nolimitz.com/foilmasts

soepkip

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2022, 12:00:57 AM »
NoLimitz now has an axis version, and looks incredible.  Lower drag, light and plenty stiff.

Please share!

;D  See link here to NoLimitz system:

https://www.nolimitz.com/foilmasts

Did you try one Beasho?

Thatspec

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2022, 03:40:55 AM »
I think once you're over 200 lbs. it's just going to be terribly hard to beat the AXIS 19MM for stiffness. Oxeanpixels is a big guy. He stays up for 45 minutes in the surf, so it obviously works for him.

Yeah 45 minutes seems good enough, clearly there's a host of other factors more important than the difference between a 16.1mm mast and a 19mm. The example study No Limitz quotes looks at the difference between 12.3 and 19mm. I'd like a $1200 new carbon toy too but at 12x the price?!

soepkip

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2022, 05:53:55 AM »
NoLimitz is comparing a 19 mm mast with a 12 mm mat but their mast is 16,1 mm thick!
Nolimitz concludes: At 0 degrees yaw and 50% mast immersion, a 2-5% increase in overall drag can be expected in the 10-25knot range when using a 19mm mast as compared to a 12mm mast.

Probably the difference between a 16,1 mm and a 19 mm mast is very very small , that might be the reason that they compared a 12 mm mast to a 19 mm mast and not a 16,1 mm.

The increase of control with a stiffer mast is more important when you weigh more than 80 kg imo.
Unfortunately they didn't test the stiffness of the NoLimitz mast against the Axis mast , perhaps they did but its not on the website.....

StellaBlu

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2022, 06:10:02 AM »
There is some interesting commentary on mast stiffness / efficiency on the recent Progression Project podcast (Unifoil episode).  Erik has been testing Cedrus (very stiff / less glide) vs NoLimitz (less stiff / more glide) vs Unifoil (balanced). There isn't really a perfect conclusion, but it seems like Erik's opinion based on his type of riding is that when pumping comes into play, the efficiency bonus that a stiff mast provides offsets the increased drag.  He also makes a statement that at winging speeds where pumping is less of a focus, glide might offset stiffness.

I'm sure there are computer programs that can easily model this and give us a proper answer...

Hdip

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2022, 02:41:35 PM »
I'm sure there are computer programs that can easily model this and give us a proper answer...

The guys at Inde Foil have done the work for you.

https://www.indefoil.com/foildesign/mast-thickness-drag

soepkip

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Re: Migrating from Armstrong to Axis ART999
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2022, 09:31:58 AM »
I'm sure there are computer programs that can easily model this and give us a proper answer...

The guys at Inde Foil have done the work for you.

https://www.indefoil.com/foildesign/mast-thickness-drag

As I said they only compared a 12 mm to a 19 mm mast and not a 16,1 mm to 19 mm mast.

 


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