Author Topic: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?  (Read 1617 times)

Caribsurf

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Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« on: December 04, 2021, 05:58:00 AM »
Wingfoiling in some pretty good size non breaking ocean swells at the moment.  I have no problem riding the swells with the wing. My issue is when I am riding out through the swells and jibing for a return run with the swells, I keep breaching when jibing in the face of the swell.  I’m sure it has something to do with my weight placement. I am trying to keep a lot of front foot pressure but even so, the foil has come up high and either breached or I came crashing down, usually wiping out.

I have no issues jibing on flat /small chop.

Any suggestions?
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2021, 06:59:26 AM »
Tall Mast

Start jibe in trough

If you feel tons of explosive energy coming around in the early part of the jibe, ease off by running down the line to bleed energy before finishing off the last part of the jibe.

PonoBill

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2021, 08:57:25 AM »
Probably a little bit the equipment you're using, and part technique. I fall all the time jibing, wave or no wave, generally because somewhere in my reptile brain there's an ancient windsurfer that screams "switch your feet" in the middle of every jibe. Watching your video it seems you might have the same critter in your brain. My front foot doesn't make it to the right spot until the jibe is well over--my switch isn't 100 percent. I have to make a few little adjustments. So if I'm out on a wing with a lot of lift, I'm screwed. Both turning and being on a wave adds a lot of energy that needs to be controlled. I'm working on learning heelside expressly so I can ride waves. It looks to me from the outside that it's the only way.

If there's enough wind I go out on the 999 or 860. Both of those give me some time to finish the jibe, but if I'm on my 1150 to ride in light wind I won't make a single jibe on a wave face. And I'm always getting tossed off the back.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Caribsurf

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2021, 11:02:40 AM »
Tall Mast

Start jibe in trough

If you feel tons of explosive energy coming around in the early part of the jibe, ease off by running down the line to bleed energy before finishing off the last part of the jibe.

Thanks Dwight, can’t do anything about the mast length down here , and I do usually initiate my jibe in the trough..I think you are right about easing off a bit. I think I make a tight , quick jibe and my feet and weight probably aren’t forward  enough resulting in the foil rising up..i did make a few today, but had a couple spectacular breach crashes too.  Hate that because I am far out at sea and I if my leash were to break, the board’s next stop is Venezuela.  I want to make 100% of my jibes to conserve my energy and prevent any potential disasters.  Riding swells is amazing, just want to be able to connect the jibe into a downwind wave session.
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

Caribsurf

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2021, 11:09:57 AM »
Probably a little bit the equipment you're using, and part technique. I fall all the time jibing, wave or no wave, generally because somewhere in my reptile brain there's an ancient windsurfer that screams "switch your feet" in the middle of every jibe. Watching your video it seems you might have the same critter in your brain. My front foot doesn't make it to the right spot until the jibe is well over--my switch isn't 100 percent. I have to make a few little adjustments. So if I'm out on a wing with a lot of lift, I'm screwed. Both turning and being on a wave adds a lot of energy that needs to be controlled. I'm working on learning heelside expressly so I can ride waves. It looks to me from the outside that it's the only way.

If there's enough wind I go out on the 999 or 860. Both of those give me some time to finish the jibe, but if I'm on my 1150 to ride in light wind I won't make a single jibe on a wave face. And I'm always getting tossed off the back.
Hey Pono, plenty of wind here..I am riding larger foil  2000 and board 129 liter than I do in the U.S. I had this stuff down from when I was just learning pre pandemic.  A board that big gives me too much deck area and I walk around too much. I like smaller board where the sweet spot is more precise . I think on a lot of these jibes, when going goofy , my strong side, I am leaning back and weight on my back leg and the combination of the speed of the wave and weight back just shoots the foil up and breaches.  So used to windsurfing and carving on face of a swell or wave, and this is so different...
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

radair

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2021, 03:58:46 AM »
Can you switch to a smaller foil? Something half that size would really help.

Caribsurf

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2021, 05:16:38 AM »
I would if I had one with me. Just have the 2000 here which I left at my house..will have to bring one down when I return in February.

I dropped down to 1750 high aspect wing in the U.S.  and liked it..I could probably go even smaller.
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

daswusup

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2021, 07:58:35 AM »
I struggled with this when learning to kitefoil. And dealt with it in early winging. Big lifty foils get supercharged by the smallest of waves when you get them on the face of wave where energy is, often during a gybe. My guess is that your normal kit that is an evolved foil doesn't react to this energy bump as much as this 2000cm wing does and its f-ing with your learned muscle memory. As you turn into the wave, get low on the mast and anticipate the burst of lift that is coming. Also, make your gybe quickly and move along. Or better yet, flag out the wing and turn into it and just surf it. I like to flag out and focus on the pure foiling without the pull of the wing.  The big lifty foils are super fun to go as slow as you can and tap all of the energy available. I ride higher AR foils lately and find myself blasting through alot of the energy available that I used to milk a lot more on my big low AR wings. I'm not suffering on my ART 999 though. I do think that riding a bunch of different gear can radically improve your overall foiling skills. The ability to adapt is huge.

Caribsurf

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2021, 09:04:15 AM »
I struggled with this when learning to kitefoil. And dealt with it in early winging. Big lifty foils get supercharged by the smallest of waves when you get them on the face of wave where energy is, often during a gybe. My guess is that your normal kit that is an evolved foil doesn't react to this energy bump as much as this 2000cm wing does and its f-ing with your learned muscle memory. As you turn into the wave, get low on the mast and anticipate the burst of lift that is coming. Also, make your gybe quickly and move along. Or better yet, flag out the wing and turn into it and just surf it. I like to flag out and focus on the pure foiling without the pull of the wing.  The big lifty foils are super fun to go as slow as you can and tap all of the energy available. I ride higher AR foils lately and find myself blasting through alot of the energy available that I used to milk a lot more on my big low AR wings. I'm not suffering on my ART 999 though. I do think that riding a bunch of different gear can radically improve your overall foiling skills. The ability to adapt is huge.

Thanks Daswusup, I think you might have something there. I always initiate my jib riding high because that’s how I learned to jibe. High on the foil meant more time to walk the deck and change stance before coming down off foil,  now that i am proficient with my jibes, I don’t have to be riding so high , especially in the face of a wave.  I’m going to try riding lower next i am out there which will be tomorrow.  I did make a few jibes on large faces and felt the energy from the wave (not so much from the wing) and tried riding them out for a while, usually unsuccessful with some great crashes.  Low and tight jibes might be the ticket..
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

PonoBill

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2021, 09:09:11 AM »
Most of the folks that are really good at winging the waves here do the entire turn with the wing flagged out unless they are going to jump or do something fancy.

I know the people that are REALLY good can make any equipment work, but they don't. They get on the right gear. A big wing on a wave of any size is such a pain in the ass and requires so much precision I don't know that it's worth the risk. When I'm on too big a foil I turn behind the wave and ride over it. Yes, chicken. I fell in love with the Axis 999 because it lets me get away with being sloppy, especially if I calm it down with a draggy tail. Instead of having to look for the low spot in a downwind swell, or turning behind the crest and sloping across the wave I can just run right over them.

The folks I see that are the best at this don't go out and try to make too big a foil wing work--they are on the right foil and/or are generally pushing things the other way--on too small a foil aiming to hold higher speeds. It's fakers like me that are trying to make the wrong foil work.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 09:11:45 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Caribsurf

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2021, 05:54:33 AM »
Yes I see a lot of videos of guys carving on waves with the wing just flagged out...I was able to do that a time or two but it’s still foreign feel to me.

As far as the foil goes, Unfortunately no dealers down here and I am stuck with he 2000 Aero foil until next trip.  Still I am having a blast, and I guess if I get the 2000 wired on waves, then a smaller foil will be even easier when I bring it down.  I definitely need a wing board, the Jimmy Lewis Flying V is a tank..6’11” 129 liter. I bought it when I was just. Learning because it can double as a foil SUP board.
Now that I know what I am doing for the most part, I want to bring my Fanatic Sky wing board down here.
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

PonoBill

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2021, 04:30:02 PM »
So buying online and getting something delivered isn't an option? Most of my Axis stuff comes in the mail. There's no Axis dealer in Hood River, and on Maui it's just Mark Raaphorst. He stocks a surprising amount of stuff, but obviously not everything. That reminds me, I owe Mark for a 70CM aluminum mast and I need to try, and then return the 380 tail he lent me.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Caribsurf

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Re: Jibing on the face of a wave/swell without breaching?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2021, 08:18:30 PM »
Pono, look where St.Vincent & the Grenadines are..I am on the tiny island of Bequia...by the time the gear arrives, sits in customs and I have to take a 1 hr ferry to collect it and pay 50% duty I’ll be on my way back to the US...besides at Christmas time things sit in customs for weeks due to back log..no chance in hell I’d have it in time.

I am returning Jan and March and will come better prepared
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

 


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