Author Topic: Reedin Super wing  (Read 30863 times)

Velasco

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2021, 01:49:19 AM »
He has a 5M OR. I think he posts here, hopefully he will chime in.
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I'm the person with the OR A Series 5.0 and the Reedin SWX 4.2

I weigh 185 and use the OR if the wind is forecasted to be on the lighter side - for me 14mph is the low end and I can comfortably use this wing in gusts up to 25.

If the forecast calls for winds above 20mph with gusts up to 35, I'm going to break out the Reedin SWX 4.2.

And if it is nuking (30+mph and up) I'll use my Reedin Super Wing 3.6 (NOT the X).

I did a bunch of research before purchasing these wings.  On the lower end of the wind spectrum, I wanted the frame rigidity and light weight that the OR A Series has. Also - watching Tucker's review of this wing - all three episodes (where most equipment gets a short one) - his reaction was telling, the OR A series was something special.  I figured I had nothing to lose (and have ZERO regrets spending all that cash).  I was contemplating getting a 6.0 - but I opted for the wing below instead.  If it is lighter than 15mph, I'll go prone foil in the surf.

As the wind picks up, in my opinion weight becomes less of an issue - I originally was looking to get a normally aspired 4.2 Super Wing (which are also on the heavy side), but the person I get most of my gear from said he talked to Damien and something different worth waiting for would be out in a couple of months.  This 4.2 is going to be my workhorse as it covers the wind range that I find myself winging in most.  I've had three really long sessions on it and it shares performance characteristics with the regular Super Wing ("back hand flying", heavier than other wings, lots of power for its size) - but what makes this such an awesome wing is the X-ply and it being a tensioned canopy.  This is a really efficient wing.  What I had originally feared about the OR A Series was whether it would shed gusts or rip my arms out.  That wing eats gusts (hence my taking it out when I can expect 25mph gusts) so my arms and back don't have to.  The X-ply/tensioned canopy of the X wing transfers all the energy of the wind to you - you feel everything.  I have learned to position the wing for less angle of attack before a gust hits, so I don't take the full brunt of the hit so I've negated that initial concern.  The one thing the X Wing doesn't do intuitively is pump, especially if the wind is lighter in the range.  I find myself pointing on a deep broad reach to get started if the wind isn't on the higher side of the range.  Once up though - these "forward drive" wings (OR is also a forward drive wing) are so efficient and need less wind to stay up on foil.

When it is nuking, I do not want to have to constantly manage the wing to dump excess power.  My original Super Wing 3.6 is perfect for my weight in 30+mph winds.  With the dacron frame and ripstop canopy, it is not as "direct" and super powerful like the X Wing.

I used to have a quiver of Ensis V2 wings - which were great for where I was skill wise at the time.  But as foils evolved to be faster and more efficient, it was inevitable that wings would also follow.  I've sold those Ensis wings (and the F One Swing and Duotone Echo I had previously) but every now and then I pick up a friend's older wing and notice the "early" and "upward" lift they generated came from looser canopies and deeper drafts - these are great for learning as you get up quick and you top out speed wise.

What I'm looking forward to in the next year or so is a 5m with a full Aluula frame and an Allula canopy - that will be the next game changer.  If I could, I would get the two unicorns I have in the garage (OR A Series and the Reedin SWX) to mate and I would have the Aluula framed X Wing.  Light weight, ultra direct, stab resistant and forward drive all in one wing.

I also want to try out the Starboard/Airush Hookipa based wing.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2021, 03:13:58 AM »
Thanks for the detailed review Velasco. The two differences highlighted below make me wonder what design characteristic makes the Ocean Rodeo so butter smooth in gusty wind. It baffles me. I think we all expected it to transfer more energy and we’d feel the brunt of every gust (like the X-ply).

So as we look to the next generation…what is hidden in the design of the OR making it so smooth?
The only design detail, this wannabe amateur wing designer can spot is the massive wing tip washout, just like hang gliders. I have not seen this in any other wing on the market.

What I had originally feared about the OR A Series was whether it would shed gusts or rip my arms out.  That wing eats gusts (hence my taking it out when I can expect 25mph gusts) so my arms and back don't have to. 

The X-ply/tensioned canopy of the X wing transfers all the energy of the wind to you - you feel everything.  I have learned to position the wing for less angle of attack before a gust hits, so I don't take the full brunt of the hit so I've negated that initial concern.

deja vu

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2021, 11:24:31 AM »

MikeLima

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2021, 01:42:06 PM »
Hi everyone, this is my first post.

I recently switched out my original quiver of gen-1 airush wings for the swx 3.6/4.7/6.  I haven’t tried much else besides on the beach, and my skills have gotten as far as jibes most of the time and foot switches half the time, and I’ve only had a few sessions, so my opinion is to be considered accordingly.

Compared to the deep-drafted airush wings, these are fast. I find them to be hard to hold on to, in other words pumpy on the forearms. This is mostly due to the wide handle size, and the fact that I live in Maine and am wearing thick mitts. I want to make minimalist handle covers for winter. Other reasons could be the increased apparent wind, and the direct feel. Winter here is also known as harness season, and they have no attachment points, but I’ve found it works to go from the front of the rear handle to 1/3-1/2 up from the back of the front handle. It seems like the center of effort or balance point is far forward on these flat sails so on the 4.7 I felt like the rear handle was too far back, since I felt I needed my front hand all the way up the front handle, which made it hard to hold on to. But the harness line attached there acted as a trap for my hand so that’s nice.

Pumping them is definitely different, with one difference being that the tips seem more likely to hit the water (weight?), so starting with a more upward pump seems to work. That said, the only time so far I haven’t felt overpowered was with the 3.6, in wind that I’d never have considered my old 4. 15-20 maybe? So I’m wondering if the increased weight might be offset once I figure them out. I haven’t used the 6 yet, but I’m curious to find out how that one will work.
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

winddoctor

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2021, 03:57:20 PM »
So as we look to the next generation…what is hidden in the design of the OR making it so smooth?
The only design detail, this wannabe amateur wing designer can spot is the massive wing tip washout, just like hang gliders. I have not seen this in any other wing on the market.

The OR designer has a solid history of hang gliding, windsurfing and kiting to draw from. I've wondered about the effect the tip washout is having myself. Perhaps it's part of that nice high end/gust eating feel but this would potentially take away from the low end grunt? Sort of like a windsurfing race-sail that has lots of leech twist for increasing the top end manners and gust eating ability, but maybe not ultimately optimized for the best low end (like a tighter-leeched freestyle windsurfing sail is?)

 I would love to try the Reedin Super Wing on my HA725 foil to see how top speed compares with my current wings just for fun. All of these wings have something unique to offer; I wish it was easier to demo them before buying.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 04:08:27 PM by winddoctor »
6'5" 200 pounds. Armstrong HA1125, HA925, HA725, HS1850, HS1250 Foils. Armstrong 5'11" FG, Quatro WingDrifter 72L, KT 3m, 4m, 5m Armstrong V2 A-Wing 2.5

PonoBill

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #50 on: December 25, 2021, 02:57:47 PM »
I finally got my Reedin 5.2 released from customs and it showed up on the 23rd in the evening. I went to Ka'a to try it out but there was too much wind for a 5.2 I haven't used before, so I took it to the harbor. I went with my 860/390 wing to tame it a bit--the wind was fairly strong.

My first impression is wow, this thing is fast, but it feels weird. It's NOT heavy (6.2 pounds on my kitchen scale). Huge amount of pull on my front hand to the point that I could let go with my rear hand and stay powered up. I don't think that's a good thing.

The canopy is rigid when it's powered up, as if it were made of fiberglass. Zero flutter even when I brought it to the edge of backwinding.

I hooked in to the harness but my lines must not be forward enough, every time I relaxed my arms the wingtip dipped as if I were raising the tail of the wing. The only wind angle it liked in harness was a mega-close reach, and at that angle, it pushed the poor fat little 860 so hard it sounded like a pipe organ.

I blew the first jibe, wallowing around like a newb when the wing hit a downwind angle, and when I was getting back on the board the wing kept pulling me off. I struggled to get back up so long that I wound up in the surf in front of Harbor Lights, which helped greatly (not). I had to do a couple of runs out and back to get over far enough to not do a walk of shame back to the canoe hale.

I struggled with the wing for the entire session. I might come to love this thing, there's not question that it's the fastest, most powerful 5M wing I've tried. But there's going to be an ugly learning curve.

Even if I wind up selling this thing I'm keeping the leash and the bag. The bag is straight-up awesome. It could probably carry three of my smaller F-one wings and it opens flat into a super comfortable changing mat. The leash is equally cool, shock-corded tubular web with a great wrist cuff and spectra loops.

The red and black colors match my board. I'm going to have to get a red and black ensemble to go with this. Or at least a red rash guard and hat. Oh, and the visibility is unreal to the degree that I forgot that I normally can't see past the wing. There's a downside. When I was pumping up onto the foil someone came wobbling toward me. I noted where he was and prepared to avoid him when I got up, but I couldn't ignore him, he was right in my field of vision. I wound up having to navigate around him on the surface before I could concentrate on getting up.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 03:11:03 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Oahuwaterwalker

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2021, 04:22:39 PM »

I struggled with the wing for the entire session. I might come to love this thing, there's not question that it's the fastest, most powerful 5M wing I've tried. But there's going to be an ugly learning curve.


This is what I have also found to be true, there's a learning curve. After 6 sessions now in a range of conditions with a 4.7 (first session) and 4.2 on all other sessions, I have moved from "I'm not sure about this wing" to "this is amazing." It is clearly something different and, again, I urge new riders to get at least 3-4 sessions and to try different ways of doing things before drawing conclusions. To me, the change needed in technique is not a negative, it's a step forward.

If you find a heavy front hand pull, try moving your hand back on the front handle further away from the leading edge. It opens up the leading edge a bit and balances the pull with the back hand more.

Pumping to foil is much more technical than any other wing I've tried, but once up, the wing is amazing. Also, I disagree with the video review from St. Maarten that this wing doesn't work in surf. What I and a few others have found is that you have to use a flagging technique more similar to what a lot of guys do who use booms. Instead of flagging from leading edge, you flag from front boom handle with assistance as needed from your other hand on the leading edge. With this, I've been riding waves from shoulder to near double over head downwind no problem.

Today, conditions were very marginal and most people were on 5-6m wings. I was able to get on foil with the 4.2 (riding HA925 and V tail) and was fully powered once up. All this said, I do not think this is a beginner friendly wing. The pump to foil really takes some good understanding of technique to make it happen.

Though heavier than my previous Armstrong 4.5, its more powerful and floats better so the weight is far less of an issue UNLESS you are in dead to very light wind.

Like Velasco (aloha!) I'm 100% convinced that a wing with an aluula frame with xply canopy would be mind-blowing.
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Jimmy Lewis 4'8 69L Custom
Reedin Superwing and Superwing X
HA925 and HA725
Chopped Flying V tail

ninja tuna

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2021, 05:01:29 PM »
watch from  1:10 to 1:35 , guy surfing with the SWX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb906VhBqw8

Oahuwaterwalker

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2021, 06:22:34 PM »
watch from  1:10 to 1:35 , guy surfing with the SWX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb906VhBqw8

One thing I notice here is that the SWX is teetering a bit while he's riding. I've noticed this when heading into the wind and flagging this way which is why I suggested the other way of flagging. That said, you can reduce the amount of "teeter" by using your thumb and flagging lower to your hip.
165lbs
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Jimmy Lewis 4'8 69L Custom
Reedin Superwing and Superwing X
HA925 and HA725
Chopped Flying V tail

MikeLima

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2021, 06:50:04 PM »
Quote
If you find a heavy front hand pull, try moving your hand back on the front handle further away from the leading edge. It opens up the leading edge a bit and balances the pull with the back hand more.

Pumping to foil is much more technical than any other wing I've tried, but once up, the wing is amazing.


I will have to try that again, but it seemed like forward was working better while I was trying to figure it out. I was so overpowered and pumping out I was just trying to survive.  With the holidays I have and will be out of the water for a while, but with time to reflect I think one of the things I’ll have to learn is to take an even finer bite out of the wind than I’ve been using. Maybe with deeper sails there’s a more gradual power progression, but with new sails it’s more abrupt, like a HA foil. But yes, in flight it’s like an arrow, super stable.

Pumping felt very awkward, but I think that’s because the airush sails are low psi(6m@4psi!), so the feedback loop will have to be relearned.
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

DownSouth

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2021, 10:19:32 PM »
It seams like Ensis is working on a similar solution.... photo was taken in Tarifa

Velasco

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2021, 11:49:33 PM »
Damien Girardin (the 'din' in Reedin; with the 'ree' being Kevin Lagaree) designs for several brands - Reedin is his company.  He designs for Ensis and Takuma.  He was the designer at Naish (until he and Kevin set out on their own).  I'm not sure on this one, but the PPCs have a lot of design similarities to the Ensis, that I'd be surprised if Damien did not have a hand in designing those as well.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2021, 04:04:51 AM »
A trusted source has told me, draft can move “forward” (not back as expected) during an over powering gust in some new stuff coming for next season. It has happened in the smaller sizes.

That could explain front hand pressure.

Oahuwaterwalker

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2021, 07:02:06 AM »
A trusted source has told me, draft can move “forward” (not back as expected) during an over powering gust in some new stuff coming for next season. It has happened in the smaller sizes.

That could explain front hand pressure.

There is definitely some similarities in response to being overpowered between the SWX and windsurfing sails. Specifically, when you get overpowered, the front can become overloaded and even push back at you. This tends to happen when you can no longer sheet in the back hand because the power is too much. This results in the pull, or when really overpowered the "push," to hit your front hand. When windsurfing, if you find your front hand close to the mast on the boom and can't work it back and manage the sheeting, it's time for a smaller sail. What you're describing leads me to think that new wings are trending more toward the "sail" end of the sail/kite design continuum. As a life-long windsurfer that makes sense as to why I prefer this kind of design to something that feels more "kite" oriented (I also kited for 10+ years but don't anymore).

There are certainly times where the front part of the handle feels right and others, especially toe side, where the back of the front handle helps with body and wing position. Generally speaking, I'm finding that moving your hands around, depending on point of sail (especially on the front handle), will have a big impact.

It's pretty challenging to capture some of these things in writing, but I'll do my best to try and clarify as this thread and my experience with the SWX evolve.


« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 07:15:30 AM by Oahuwaterwalker »
165lbs
Riding
Jimmy Lewis 4'8 69L Custom
Reedin Superwing and Superwing X
HA925 and HA725
Chopped Flying V tail

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Reedin Super wing
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2021, 07:55:57 AM »
……. the front can become overloaded and even push back at you. This tends to happen when you can no longer sheet in the back hand because the power is too much.

I had this happen windsurf foiling. So I switched from soft foiling sails to two cam foiling sails.

Could we see a hang glider batten at leading edge in the future?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 07:59:22 AM by Dwight (DW) »

 


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