Author Topic: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only  (Read 9295 times)

FoilMad

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2021, 11:37:14 PM »


I can directly compare the NL130 to the ART 999 and say that the 999 is as fast but better glide.  This comes from foil SUPing some of the bigger waves in the world.  I would only grab for my NL130 if the waves were a guaranteed 12 feet.  Speeds ranging from 18 to 25 mph.  Mostly at Mavericks but also at Phantoms on the north shore of Oahu.  The ART999 has less pop or front foot kick with the 420 tail no shim than any NL GoFoil wing.  I weigh 85 Kg. 

Maybe some downwind guys are hitting 20 to 25 mph.  But please use exact numbers when referring to speeds.  The NL130 is a rock in big waves but the 999 has a wider flight profile.  I have found the 999 starts to stall for me around 12 mph.  Rather it sags and is a lot of work to recover.  Easy cruising speed is 15 mph.  With the right tail and board I have zero front foot pressure at 20 mph +

A downwind average speed for well experienced guys might be 20klms/h and a world class downwinder might average 25-26 Klms/h in 25 knots plus and best conditions possible from what I understand. 6s period wind bumps travel at approximately 18klms/h in open ocean for reference.

Guys downwinding the ART might have typical average speeds 18-20klms per hour which is below where you think your stall speed is. Your wing is designed for good speed and glide in minimal power. It has an aspect ratio of 10 so specifically suited to low power efficiency.  It seems after the takeoff you are riding swell in water so deep that it results in a in low accessible power circumstance. The NL130 has design characteristics for high speed control and turning. Fighter jets don't have wings like gliders.

Each to their own.




PonoBill

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2021, 11:32:51 PM »
At the far end of what's possible, the Spencer brothers won the 10-mile downwing Gorge paddle challenge race in light wind with times of 25 minutes each, which is 24mph or almost 39 kph. the distance measurement was certainly not precise, but still...

As I recall they were on F-one foils.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 11:36:00 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

burchas

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2021, 09:27:07 AM »
...the Spencer brothers won the 10-mile downwing Gorge paddle challenge race in light wind... As I recall they were on F-one foils.

Aren't they sponsored by Slingshot? I believe their current offerings looks very similar to the F-One
in progress...

FoilMad

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2021, 12:04:39 PM »
Hi Bill,

Just to be sure we are on the same track, the speeds you are talking about for the spencer brothers are wind powered where as the title of this thread and its contents are about wave powered. Free winging downwind refers to parking the wing and riding the bumps. Wingers chasing speed like Alex A are pushing 30 knots while the best downwinders on SUPs in the best conditions are averaging 26-27 klms.



Beasho

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2021, 07:31:56 AM »
A downwind average speed for well experienced guys might be 20klms/h and a world class downwinder might average 25-26 Klms/h in 25 knots plus and best conditions possible from what I understand. 6s period wind bumps travel at approximately 18klms/h in open ocean for reference.

Guys downwinding the ART might have typical average speeds 18-20klms per hour which is below where you think your stall speed is. Your wing is designed for good speed and glide in minimal power. It has an aspect ratio of 10 so specifically suited to low power efficiency.  It seems after the takeoff you are riding swell in water so deep that it results in a in low accessible power circumstance. The NL130 has design characteristics for high speed control and turning. Fighter jets don't have wings like gliders.

I think we are in a Goldilocks phase.  We can have our cake and eat it too!  Speed, Pump and Turn.  At least for a short while.   

I have progressed from the GoFoil Kai, to Maliko 160, to IWA, M200, GL210, GL140, NL190, NL130 and then found the M280 to be my favorite wing last summer.  The IWA allowed me to carry further after taking off on a bigger wave.  The GL210 was able to keep up with faster waves that would otherwise get away.  The NL's were faster again but on the biggest waves I only trusted the NL130 or GL140 to stay down.

The Axis 999 has SPEED and Glide.  I haven't been pushing it with the turns too much yet.  I did take the Axis 999 out in 2 foot faces last week and was able to fly which was pretty unbelievable.  Yes this wing is a game changer but its NOT 500% better, more like 15% better.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 07:58:31 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2021, 07:57:50 AM »
At the far end of what's possible, the Spencer brothers won the 10-mile downwing Gorge paddle challenge race in light wind with times of 25 minutes each, which is 24mph or almost 39 kph. the distance measurement was certainly not precise, but still...

Pono - Those speeds are CRAZY for sustained flight. 

I hit 25 miles per hour this weekend.  Feathering inside waves at Mavericks.  I had a friend Mark comment about this takeoff spot:

"Those waves are hard to catch on a Mavericks gun." 

With a 7' 4" SUP, the right foil and proper positioning I am catching waves that I have been trying to catch for 4 years.  Better yet people have been looking at this, these, waves for 40+ years.  The quick drop can be brutal, with a touch more size, and it breaks boards.  The buoys were just 6ft @ 12 seconds with (maybe) some underlying 13 second hidden energy but at Mavericks you can find surprise 2X overhead waves and then fly for 600+ yards. 

In 15+ sessions with the 90 cm mast I have yet to breach with this 999 wing.  I was using the 420 tail with 1 shim.  The 420 has less front foot kick than the 375 Progressive tail and is therefore better suited to bigger faster conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKTDCsG9Ns
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 08:01:46 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2021, 08:07:47 AM »
My longest flight was 700 yards.  It took me 30 seconds to pass mushroom rock.  Average Speed 17.6 mph. 

A nice double overhead KICK in the pants, followed by a scurry behind the wave to wait for the energy to dissipate, then drop back in and go hunting on a relatively glassy face for almost a half mile.

Without the shim in the 420 tail the 999 should hold down well in Triple Overhead ++.  2 - 20 feet.

This was the stuff of dreams until now.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 08:13:33 AM by Beasho »

PonoBill

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2021, 10:04:34 AM »
Yeah, when the spencer kids went by me (I rode upwind to watch the race from around the Hatchery) what they were doing looked impossible. They were going so fast the apparent wind turned their straight downwind angle into a fairly close reach. Mind-bending, especially since I was cruising downwind at the time, barely able to keep my wing up in a high-flagged position going downwind at a much less straight line in very light wind.

I mentioned this only as what I'd consider an upper bound for downwinging. Unless the wind is well over 25kts I don't think the average Joe or Josephine will go a lot faster. For most of us going faster means having a lower wind speed to push us, even if we're angling across the wind swells to gain more energy.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2021, 10:10:22 AM »

Without the shim in the 420 tail the 999 should hold down well in Triple Overhead ++.  2 - 20 feet.

This was the stuff of dreams until now.

I ride the 420, just got the 375. No wind… you mean the 375 has more of an angle so it will force the nose of the board up more than the 420?

I was looking at them and by my eye they should be similar in terms of drag, similar thickness and chord, just less width for the 375. I didn’t plan on what you describe which would be a high speed issue. I’ve had the 999 up to 24 mph with the 999 and it was steady in flat water, not much more front foot pressure than going 19mph.

805StandUp

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2021, 11:55:15 AM »
I spoke to Tucker and MacKite a couple weeks back and he interestingly recommended the GT1250 over the RS so I had one arrive only to find no waves.  Will see what I think but it is EXACTLY the same profile of the NL160 except steps in lieu of winglets so will be interesting to see if it really is gamechanging.  I am also looking forward to ride reports on the RS which should arrive in shops next month.

Initial reports are gamechanging! But they always tend to be. Until I actually see it, I remain cautiously optimistic or maybe pessimistically hopeful.  At risk of being the old grump, I've seen the hype train go by a few too many times now,  over-promising and under-delivering.  Reminds me of that line in the movie The Color of Money, about the wealthy pool player getting hustled: I don't mind losing the money, but I am not willing to just give it away.   ::)    So....let's hear those reports!  :)

Juan--I have been skunked ever since getting the GT so don't have any real perspective yet.  What I will say is that in the miniscule conditions we have had, the GT had less lift than the NL which was remediated by taking my feet further back than I usually ride on the NL.  I suspect it may have less AOA but haven't measured to confirm.  The only other thoughts are that it is super user friendly and easy to control and seems to pump better at slower speeds than equivalent NL size.  Will report back more when there is some semblance of a swell.

Beasho

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2022, 07:44:43 AM »
So here is an interesting comparison between the ART 999 and the GoFoil NL190.  Back to back testing.

I have been exclusively SUP foiling the ART 999 and in Big Waves 10 - 15 foot+ takeoffs.  Mavericks was breaking, smallish, on Saturday so I paddle out with Emma.  Figure why not take a kid to Mavericks.

I attempt to chip into a few and can't quite make the drops.  Session looks like this.

The outer blips were attempts just inside the bowl.  The long run from what I call Cannonballs past Mushroom Rock.  Then we both headed in after sunset. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 07:54:01 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2022, 07:45:13 AM »
Let's catch one last wave at Black Hand Reef.  Black hand reef had surprisingly approachable 6 to 8 foot waves. 

One quick and easy ride back in BUT this was Tsunami Saturday, and it was Mavericks dead low tide with full moon and the buoys were 12 ft @ 15 seconds so . . . .

We get clipped by an outer wave.  Not a big wave maybe 7 to 8 feet.  But then we start getting dragged in.  I push record on the GoPro before the 2nd hit.

I come up after wave 3 and each successive wave is bigger.  6 - 8+ feet of whitewater now on the inside of Black Hand reef.  I am all tangled with the board, I come up and it looks like this. 

There is a bit of terror going through my mind 1) This leash is definitely going to break 2) The sun has already set 3) This board is going to wash into the bay and be gone forever. 

The little speck centered in the last photo in front of the whitewater was Emma learning how to take a beating.  At least she was wearing float. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 08:05:26 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2022, 07:45:35 AM »
Here was the full experience:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyQkwZgX7jo
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 08:06:08 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2022, 07:54:56 AM »
A feature NOT a bug. 

In the old days with all Carbon Mast either the $800 mast would crack or my box would fail.  BOTH very expensive options.  In this case it is a $125 replacement part. 

But my Dad thinks he can fix it.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 08:06:47 AM by Beasho »

 


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