`

Author Topic: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only  (Read 4136 times)

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2021, 02:45:05 PM »
I'm running the 350 progressive with 1deg of shim and it works great.  Without the shim is a touch more efficient, but it doesn't turn very well nor come up without a bunch of back foot pressure.   It comes alive and rides great with 1deg of shim.  After a couple months getting the 999 dialed, I went back to the takuma 1250 for a session which I used to think was the best foil ever made and it just feels draggy now.

805StandUp

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2021, 04:12:59 PM »
I'm running the 350 progressive with 1deg of shim and it works great.  Without the shim is a touch more efficient, but it doesn't turn very well nor come up without a bunch of back foot pressure.   It comes alive and rides great with 1deg of shim.  After a couple months getting the 999 dialed, I went back to the takuma 1250 for a session which I used to think was the best foil ever made and it just feels draggy now.

How does the 350P compare with the 13.5 KD tail, Jon?  I love my 13.5 with my NL160.  Would you say that the 999 has replaced the takuma for surf for you then?

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2984
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2021, 06:46:33 PM »
Yeah!  So glad to hear this!  You'll flip when you go with the Progressive tails.  I've been using the 400P and the performance is so much better.  The speed and glide of the whole system is beyond belief.

Wow!  It gets better!  400P?  375P?  So many options.

Pushed the 'Buy' button yesterday and the tail wing showed up this afternoon.  1 Day shipping.  Unreal.  Better than Amazon.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 06:59:06 PM by Beasho »

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24942
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2021, 07:46:37 PM »
Everything I own feels draggy after the 999. This morning I was out with a GoFoil Maliko 200 with the Maliko tail to try out a big loaner board. I jumped off the board to see if something was wrapped around the wing. Nope.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2021, 10:16:30 PM »
I would say the 350 progressive is very similar to the KDMaui 13.5"
they didn't copy it exact or anything like that, but if you put them on top of each other the 350 is only 1/4" more span and about the same chord.  They look about the same thickness too.

But importantly, they ride very similar to the point where I probably couldn't tell the difference. 

getting the shim right is so important though - rides so different at different angles

And yes, I'm only riding the 999 in surf right now.  I will probably keep using the 980 this winter whenever the real swell rolls through
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 10:22:00 PM by jondrums »

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2984
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2021, 12:41:02 PM »
I would say the 350 progressive is very similar to the KDMaui 13.5" . . .
And yes, I'm only riding the 999 in surf right now.  I will probably keep using the 980 this winter whenever the real swell rolls through

Jon - This is interesting feedback considering you were originally hesitant about the 999 in the surf.  I have had ~ 14 sessions now on the ART 999.  This morning in 4 to 5 foot faces with 375 Progressive Tail, 6 foot board.  NO Shim. 

It turns well but I had to stay on top of it.  These tracks were 'turnier' than I thought they would be.  The 375P didn't pump quite as well as the 420 tail BUT I will try the  1 degree of shim next.  In smaller waves you can NOT afford to go straight with the wave.  The foil is fast so it requires constantly turning and going UP and DOWN the line.  This means NO going straight and therefore would be BAD for beginners because it would never fly well travelling with whitewater. 

PS: This foil has worked in 10 to 12 foot++ faces so I am wondering what the benefit would be of other foils 'when it gets good.'
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 12:45:31 PM by Beasho »

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2021, 02:55:17 PM »
Beasho - my initial hesitation has gone away now that I have the right tail setup - it surfs pretty well.  But to be honest, I'm using it all the time just because pumping is just so so fun and this is by far the best pumping wing I've ever tried.    Pumping back out and cranking a 180 turn on the face of the next wave is just so fun.

The turning feel of the 980/1210 is still unmatched.  Additionally, the 999 is pretty flexible and it shows.  In bigger waves I still really like the feel of a stiffer wing, and also the pitch stability of the Kujira is still pretty magical.  On a big steep drop the 999 is tricky to manage pitch comparatively. 

805StandUp

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2021, 07:12:52 AM »
Thanks for the report, Jon!  Sounds like what I am looking for.  Perhaps the Kujira 1095 will be the perfect combination of the pump of the 999 and the surfiness of the 1210 for you.  That said, I spoke to Tucker and MacKite a couple weeks back and he interestingly recommended the GT1250 over the RS so I had one arrive only to find no waves.  Will see what I think but it is EXACTLY the same profile of the NL160 except steps in lieu of winglets so will be interesting to see if it really is gamechanging.  I am also looking forward to ride reports on the RS which should arrive in shops next month. 

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2021, 09:07:38 AM »
I think with a little more iteration we will see these super high aspect super thin wings turn as good as today's surf wings.  Perhaps the Takuma or RS will be even better than the 999, we'll see.

An interesting note on the tail shim - I tried 1.5deg and 1deg both turn and pump really great.  0deg was not to my liking, it felt like it didn't want to roll side to side - although I didn't think to move it up in the boxes.   I want to get some time on .5deg because I do think the 1 and 1.5deg is a bit pitchy. 

Beasho post up your ride report on 0deg vs. 1deg for those of us geeks who make or break on half a degree

juandesooka

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2021, 10:21:00 AM »
I spoke to Tucker and MacKite a couple weeks back and he interestingly recommended the GT1250 over the RS so I had one arrive only to find no waves.  Will see what I think but it is EXACTLY the same profile of the NL160 except steps in lieu of winglets so will be interesting to see if it really is gamechanging.  I am also looking forward to ride reports on the RS which should arrive in shops next month.

Initial reports are gamechanging! But they always tend to be. Until I actually see it, I remain cautiously optimistic or maybe pessimistically hopeful.  At risk of being the old grump, I've seen the hype train go by a few too many times now,  over-promising and under-delivering.  Reminds me of that line in the movie The Color of Money, about the wealthy pool player getting hustled: I don't mind losing the money, but I am not willing to just give it away.   ::)    So....let's hear those reports!  :)

burchas

  • Custom Built
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2021, 12:58:05 PM »
That said, I spoke to Tucker and MacKite a couple weeks back and he interestingly recommended the GT1250 over the RS so I had one arrive only to find no waves...  I am also looking forward to ride reports on the RS which should arrive in shops next month.

That's the same thing I got from Tucker as to the foil one would always have in the car, GT1250 and Ocean Rodeo A series 5M (he's 195LB). He didn't bring-up the game changing spiel into the mix. His feeling that this front wing has a really good pitch control and very smooth responsive turns without loosing too much glide over the RS.

When pushed for a comparison between the RS and the ART999 he felt the comparable Slingshot offering was the favorite. That's one man's opinion but when thinking about my next purchase I have to take under account skill level and riding conditions. So I am also looking forward to ride reports on the RS.
in progress...

FoilMad

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2021, 06:47:56 PM »
Hi Burchas,
In what specific riding circumstances do you wish to compare the RS foils and the ART999. In free winging downwind the ART has its place but i am not sure where else someone would choose the ART999 over even the Axis HPS series. The ART999 is 1m wide and flexes more than most wings. A beginner to intermediate downwinding wing. It may be of use in very small prone or sup surf if you goal is less turning performance and more pump then great choice.


 

burchas

  • Custom Built
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2021, 08:02:36 PM »
Hi Burchas,
In what specific riding circumstances do you wish to compare the RS foils and the ART999. In free winging downwind the ART has its place but i am not sure where else someone would choose the ART999 over even the Axis HPS series. The ART999 is 1m wide and flexes more than most wings. A beginner to intermediate downwinding wing. It may be of use in very small prone or sup surf if you goal is less turning performance and more pump then great choice.

I would think Downwind and pumping is on most hit list for direct comparison between the ART and the RS. For my list I would like to know how well behaved is the RS when overpowered. Seems like one of the main features of this new design is the pitch control which suggests well behaved even when pushed hard. The ART seems to scare many when pushed.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 08:17:18 PM by burchas »
in progress...

FoilMad

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2021, 02:25:57 PM »

I would think Downwind and pumping is on most hit list for direct comparison between the ART and the RS. For my list I would like to know how well behaved is the RS when overpowered. Seems like one of the main features of this new design is the pitch control which suggests well behaved even when pushed hard. The ART seems to scare many when pushed.

The ART is super high aspect but with a fuller profile i think to try and return some of those lower stall speed attributes and rideability of the more typical high aspects which it seems to have accomplished to some extent. It was designed for glide at much lower speed and combined with its flex it wont like rough water and higher speeds. This is based on first hand friends experience. I don't imagine people will be downwind racing on this wing but will be a good introductory foil for the light to medium weight downwinders .

I only weigh 65kgs so i didn't think i could push the p180 fast but this is not the case. It has incredible range so i expect its latest incarnation the RS1300 being the same dimensions but thinner will have similar bottom end but much faster. Friends reports are it turns better again than the P180 and the PNL185 and also pumps better. It was designed for downwind racing and will be at least very competitive.

I have prone surfed the RS1000 twice and it was very impressive. It was immediately home for me with great speed and incredible turning. For my weight i think it pumped as well as the much bigger nl160 but faster. I have ordered the wing and it will replace both the NL130 and NL160 winging in waves for me and will be my daily prone foil. To me the steps have made the foil very ridable for its chord and thickness, so fast but so well behaved from the very first wave. It has the same wingspan as the gl140 but turned so much better for me as i could push hard in turns. Impressed enough to order one immediately and bummed i am not riding it everyday already.

I will order the RS1150 for free wing and very small surf days.

Final comment is that increasing wingspan for me makes foils incredibly sensitive to turn and pump with chop and wash making the ride very technical. Practice diminishes the challenge to some extent obviously. 

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2984
    • View Profile
Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2021, 08:37:07 PM »
The ART is super high aspect but with a fuller profile i think to try and return some of those lower stall speed attributes and rideability of the more typical high aspects which it seems to have accomplished to some extent. It was designed for glide at much lower speed and combined with its flex it wont like rough water and higher speeds. This is based on first hand friends experience. I don't imagine people will be downwind racing on this wing but will be a good introductory foil for the light to medium weight downwinders .

I can directly compare the NL130 to the ART 999 and say that the 999 is as fast but better glide.  This comes from foil SUPing some of the bigger waves in the world.  I would only grab for my NL130 if the waves were a guaranteed 12 feet.  Speeds ranging from 18 to 25 mph.  Mostly at Mavericks but also at Phantoms on the north shore of Oahu.  The ART999 has less pop or front foot kick with the 420 tail no shim than any NL GoFoil wing.  I weigh 85 Kg. 

Maybe some downwind guys are hitting 20 to 25 mph.  But please use exact numbers when referring to speeds.  The NL130 is a rock in big waves but the 999 has a wider flight profile.  I have found the 999 starts to stall for me around 12 mph.  Rather it sags and is a lot of work to recover.  Easy cruising speed is 15 mph.  With the right tail and board I have zero front foot pressure at 20 mph +
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 08:43:24 PM by Beasho »

 


* Recent Posts

post Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
FoilMad
Today at 12:04:39 PM
post Re: Getting ejected out the front door...
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Solent Foiler
Today at 11:43:55 AM
post Re: Drysuit anyone?
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
puget sound
Today at 10:26:35 AM
post Re: Harness alternative
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
PonoBill
Today at 09:34:35 AM
post Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
burchas
Today at 09:27:07 AM
post Re: Harness alternative
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Dontsink
Today at 07:21:04 AM
post Re: Harness alternative
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
dns
Today at 07:10:25 AM
post Re: Harness alternative
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Badger
Today at 05:10:10 AM
post Re: ART999 vs GoFoil NL190 - SUP Foil Only
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
PonoBill
November 27, 2021, 11:32:51 PM
post Re: Harness alternative
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
dns
November 27, 2021, 10:03:29 PM
post Re: New Ride-2019 Nissan Frontier
[Gear Talk]
Biggreen
November 27, 2021, 05:57:43 PM
post Re: New Ride-2019 Nissan Frontier
[General Discussion]
Biggreen
November 27, 2021, 05:48:15 PM
post Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Vancouver_foiler
November 27, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
post Re: Foil Videos
[Foil SUP]
burchas
November 27, 2021, 04:49:51 PM
post Re: Harness alternative
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Badger
November 27, 2021, 09:10:01 AM
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2021, SimplePortal