Author Topic: Foiling Sailboats!  (Read 3206 times)

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Foiling Sailboats!
« on: October 14, 2021, 11:39:26 AM »
Oh look, a new board on the forum.  Humor me.   :)

After a season on the bike, I have the foiling bug again.  Yeah, the legs have gone to shit but, se la vie.  I had been eyeing foiling moths a few years back but never pulled the trigger.  Recently, I came across this little foiler (Cobra produced) that looks super fun to me.  I am going to give it a go.  More forgiving that the Moths and a lot less fiddly.  Still can do 20 mph and can foil in 6 knots.  Can be surface sailed with plugs rather than foils, so I can teach the grandkids as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhk6Jib3yi4

DavidJohn

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2021, 01:48:31 PM »
Consider this one.. Andy is a friend that I’ve known forever and his boats are very popular down here..

https://youtu.be/EgTnceHunns

Caribsurf

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2021, 02:21:39 PM »
As I age each year, I have been thinking of getting into sailing where I can sit rather than stand and this foil boat caught my eye.  this company out of Rhode Island makes the UFO foil boat

http://www.fulcrumspeedworks.com/UFO/

I have seen some really cool videos.  The only negative it’s for one person .
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

Tom

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2021, 03:05:29 PM »
I am very impressed and interested in the UFO. Would love to learn more about it and if there is anyone on the west coast that sells them.

Caribsurf

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2021, 08:49:44 PM »
Tom just get their e mail from the company website and ask them. They are very nice people and eager to answer any questions.  The videos of their UFOs are from all over the world so they must have decent distributor channel. 
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

PonoBill

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2021, 10:58:49 PM »
I tried a moth, and even had an order in with some loony Russian who was building them under license. I about killed myself trying to sail the one I demo-ed. Not easy. I saw quite a few of the UFOs in Mission bay last winter. They look like great fun. In theory, they're single-person boats but I saw them two-up numerous times. Whatever you get I want to try it. I'll probably have to get one.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Solent Foiler

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 02:04:07 AM »
Edit - this is not aimed at anyone in particular, just my observation...

We have several Moths at our club, a few sailed to a very high standard. The thing you have to realise about this class of boat is that they are a development class, which means they are all built to a rule that allows a lot of freedom in design. In other words that are almost all different. Yes, you can buy an off the shelf Moth, which will be the same as the next one from that brand, but once they go out into the wild, the owners will change them. New foils, masts, sails, controls to keep up with the latest developments. This is not just chasing top speed, but a lot of the time it's about improving the controls and making the boat easier to sail. A boat that is easier to sail means you can push it harder and sail faster as well as being, well, easier to sail!
The upshot of this is that it takes a huge amount of time to figure out how to set the boats up well and keeping them maintained. Moth are racing boats, and are not designed for the punishment a novice will give it. Hell, even the good guys are forever keeping on top of maintenance jobs. It's a massive investment in time both off and on the water, because you can't just ask someone how to set up your boat. They're all different. You kinda need to figure it out for yourself.

Boats like the UFO and WAZSP are not development classes so have to stay exactly the same. This makes things much easier, as everyone is sailing the same kit, so setup and advice is more easily transferred. You don't get the same level of obsolescence compared to a Moth where the kit is developing all the time. You also get a bit more robustness as they will take that half a step back from the performance vs durability line.

It may sound like I'm bashing the Moths but I'm really not. I have friends who are world class level in the fleet and am surrounded by them when I go winging and they are awesome. They just take a LOT of commitment just to get 'competent', never mind 'fast', and need good fitness so unless you're happy having a 60:40 water to non water time ratio I'd really recommend you look at the non development foiling classes, if you're interested of going that way.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 02:14:37 AM by Solent Foiler »
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Hipe v2 4'11 70L
Axis ART 999
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2021, 08:58:26 AM »
Yes!  Stoked to see interest in this.  I actually already ordered a Skeeta from Melges (US Distributor) and should have a boat to mess with in November.  I was also very interested in all of the boats mentioned above (and still am).  There are others that looked sweet as well.  It would be cool to see some alternate experiences as I/we get started.

The same group is doing a light sailor/kids boat that "tops out" at 140 lbs but it looks like some of the more advanced larger sailers are using that as well.  If the larger boat (up to 240 lbs) works out we will get a smaller one as well.  They have 3 sail sizes (9.5, 8.5, 7.2) for the larger boat so, a bit of range as well. 

I expect a big learning curve and plenty of dunks.  I think it looks like great fun and I am hopeful that it is possible.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 09:58:16 AM by Admin »

Solent Foiler

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2021, 10:51:08 AM »
Yes!  Stoked to see interest in this.  I actually already ordered a Skeeta from Melges (US Distributor) and should have a boat to mess with in November.  I was also very interested in all of the boats mentioned above (and still am).  There are others that looked sweet as well.  It would be cool to see some alternate experiences as I/we get started.

The same group is doing a light sailor/kids boat that "tops out" at 140 lbs but it looks like some of the more advanced larger sailers are using that as well.  If the larger boat (up to 240 lbs) works out we will get a smaller one as well.  They have 3 sail sizes (9.5, 8.5, 7.2) for the larger boat so, a bit of range as well. 

I expect a big learning curve and plenty of dunks.  I think it looks like great fun and I am hopeful that it is possible.


There's a guy at my club who has one and they look like a nice foiling package, although he's not doing it justice! With your foiling experience you're well placed to get up and having fun quickly. Biggest difference to winging is relying on the boat to control the ride height, so need a bit of commitment to get up to foiling speed and then faith that the boat won't launch you up and then straight into a crash (although there will be plenty of those too!)  The absence of shrouds at least means you're not going to cheese wire yourself if you do get launched forward on a hard landing.
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Hipe v2 4'11 70L
Axis ART 999
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m

Caribsurf

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2021, 11:45:10 AM »
Do you need a leash for these things? ;D

But honestly if you were to fly off the back, would it stop in it 's tracks or keep foiling along?
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

Admin

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2021, 03:21:24 AM »

There's a guy at my club who has one and they look like a nice foiling package, although he's not doing it justice! With your foiling experience you're well placed to get up and having fun quickly. Biggest difference to winging is relying on the boat to control the ride height, so need a bit of commitment to get up to foiling speed and then faith that the boat won't launch you up and then straight into a crash (although there will be plenty of those too!)  The absence of shrouds at least means you're not going to cheese wire yourself if you do get launched forward on a hard landing.

Cool.  It seems fun to learn about active foils and I have everything to learn which is pretty exciting.  On the boat I ordered the lifting foils (lifting foils vs horizontal foils - that is what we foiling sailors call them :) ) are one piece/flapless.  The rudder foil angle is not actively managed but can be adjusted at the tiller end with a knob.  Cool!  The Main foil/Daggerboard foil is actively adjusted by the bow wand.  One nice feature for me is that there is a line which lifts the wand, basically a panic button, which angles the front foil down and immediately lowers the boat to surface mode.  I'll need that :) .

There are shrouds/stays on the Skeeta coming off of a carbon spreader.  They attach the hull, so they aren't quite as wide set as on the some of the Moths which have them way out on the wings, but I am sure you can still find them in the right crash. 

I have been going over the guides.  Reminds me how these things are all really a sum of their (numerous) parts.  Just looking at what is going to break first. 

Good thing that Bill is interested. 

Randy: Broken part, Ahh shit!
Bill:  Broken Part, Ooh project!

https://c2b8221c-7630-4c48-bf1b-0ced22e81900.filesusr.com/ugd/23ea61_1642677be2c74d769bab307f6ddea618.pdf

This video shows the foiling systems of the Skeeta, Nikki and Waszp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvKqfAVsxt0
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 08:29:51 AM by Admin »

jondrums

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2021, 09:54:19 AM »
I have resisted the massive urge to let myself get into this.  I spent a few years two decades ago deeply in the international canoe racing/development class.  Super fun boat but being a development class generally means the boat is broken more often than it is sailing.  There was always a few van guys with a full composite layup tools and materials ready to help people patch stuff up and get back out there the next day.  And everyone pitched in on the late-nighter repair because if they didn't there would only be 3 guys on the starting line instead of 4.  The awesome part was showing up for a 3-day regatta and seeing all the cool mods people had done since the last one.  We all copied each other and would show up at the next one with our own version of whatever was working best.  Super invigorating, but I usually spent a week of all-nighters leading up to a regatta.  Can't do that with the way my life is now - maybe again when I retire.

The moth class is pretty much like this too as far as I can tell.

I'm crossing my fingers for you that the boat you picked is well made and doesn't break something every other crash.  That's the real drag on these things.   

PonoBill

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2021, 07:42:54 PM »
I came by your house yesterday when I was out tearing up forest service roads on my little KTM murdercycle. So much fun. I wound up on Old Dalles road (all roads lead to Mosier), so I stopped by to see what you guys were up to. The car was there but it looked mighty quiet, so I didn't bang on the door, especially since in all my motorcycle garb I look like a serial killer.

Next time I'll bang. Don't shoot, I want to talk about foil sailboats.

For that matter, I thought I saw Chan in Rosauers today. Two things prevented me from saying "Hi Chan". She was a little bit larger in all dimensions, she was wearing a mask, and the notion of Chan shopping for groceries seems a little off. If they were selling Crypto currency or perhaps had a day trading kiosk I would have known it was her.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2021, 07:47:49 PM »
So I read the Skeetah manual. This thing looks a lot like flying Ultralights in the '80s. Everything is going to bend, stretch, twist or break. At least it won't do all that 3500 feet in the air.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Foiling Sailboats!
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2021, 02:15:19 AM »
I dig the design and the way the Skeeta looks foiling but I am wide open to an alternate.  Talk me out of it.  :) I just want something easy enough to get me going but close enough to the moth/waszp thing that it can potentially transfer.  Or potentially the Skeeta is already in that leauge, fun-wise.  Not sure.  Waszp looks very nice but without already having the specific skills at the ready I don't think it would be possible for me right now. 

This guy did a season on the Skeeta and then moved on to a Waszp.  I am reading others going in the opposite direction.  Par for the course?  He praised the boat but did mention that it is not the most robust construction.  Light, strong, and large enough to be stable is tricky. These Skeetas are Cobra Epoxy construction.  Strong for windsurfers and such but a long way from a fiberglas laser, I am sure.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYoZVwq5DXU&t=334s

These guys are doing sail foiling camps and rental in Skeetas and Waszps on Lake Garda (Looks beautiful).  Smart thing may be to go and try first :)

https://stickl.com/foiling_camp_gardasee_stickl/skeeta_foilen_gardasee/
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 04:56:47 AM by Admin »

 


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