Author Topic: The ART 999 Thread  (Read 22128 times)

daswusup

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2021, 07:13:40 AM »
The pic that Pono posted of tails needs more mentioning, specifically all those new "progressive " tails. I clicked on the catalogue link and the tails vanished??? When are these coming to market? Dwight probably has all of them already. Spill the beans! I wish they showed profile pics. The bird's eye only tells part of the story.

I am pretty stoked on the 380 with the 999. I think that tails could have a pronounced effect on the 999. I want a super thin, 500ish with a chord around 40 for ultimate glide and pump. I'm officially declaring myself part of the Axis Research Team. Boom

805StandUp

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2021, 07:58:24 AM »
I could be wrong but the description of the progressive tail sounds a lot like the KD's or maybe inspired by KDMaui tails... will be interesting to see them when they come out.

Hdip

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2021, 08:53:42 AM »
Oh I opened the picture and now see the new progressive lineup. Theyíre all still to wide. When will axis make something for prone riders who want to aggressively surf? It seems theyíre purposely chasing the intermediate market which I donít understand.

PonoBill

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2021, 08:58:55 AM »
Thanks for the catalogue link, Bill, it also gave me a pointer as to my difficulties getting to grips with the 999. It lists the 999 as being suited for 4.8-6m wing sizes for an 80kg rider, with the 830, 880 and 930 more suited for wing sizes below that.
Iím an 87kg intermediate and itís just been scary as hell in my three sessions so far in gusty conditions eg today was a 5m day that quickly became a 3.8m day and I could easily have used a 2.8m in between the lulls.   Changing back to the 880 was a lifesaver.

I understand the issue. I'm 102kg and in high wind, I've found the 999 to be initially very spooky. I know the speed freaks will moan about this, but that's another reason the 390 tail works well for me--training wheels with brakes. Going straight downwind with a 2.8 wing doing its best to get away from me the sheer fun of running over hefty swells like railroad ties with no drama from the foil at all is just incredible. I did the same with the 400 and was probably going somewhere close to twice as fast. There was a lot more drama, but what a rush. I was getting to the point that I can manage the 400 and do some blistering upwind/downwind runs without incident though yeah, it remains pretty scary. Unfortunately, it's cold as hell in Hood River and I'm being a big sissy, preferring to work on projects in my shop rather than go out and play in the cold and rain in a full suit with a hood. My gear is packed for Maui. More silliness soon.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

headmount

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2021, 09:31:49 PM »
Did we decide what the perfect tail for the 999 is?
I'm running the KDMaui 13.5" at about 3.5deg up and I've been happy.  Hard to say if there might be a better setup

So when you say 3.5 degree up, do you mean you're lifting the leading edge of the rear wing up 3.5 degrees?

headmount

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2021, 10:33:07 AM »
I watched our Axis dealer here on Maui, Mark, rip little bumps inside the harbor with his 999.  It appeared remarkably loose.  Wind was light.  Too light for me to lift but Mark had a very energetic pump and could get is 170 pounds up and flying. 

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2021, 10:35:46 AM »
We finally reached the point where we can openly talk about the Progressive tails. They do in fact look a bit like Kane tails. But personally owning a Kane tail (the one he makes to fit Axis), I can say itís quite a bit different. You can literally feel the difference in foil section between the Progressive and a Kane. My Kane has reflex in the foil section. The Axis does not. I have no experience with his new slim series.

The Progressive is the lowest drag, and fastest tail, I have ever felt under my feet. Never have I owned a tail that could totally eliminate hobby horsing at ALL speeds and ALL wave conditions. Zero, nada, power surges with any of my HPS foils, or ART. Yet it still powers up any foil I own, at 10 knots with perfect power and foot balance, all the way to 30 knots. Mine is the 400. I have been riding that one 400 with everything from the 830 to 1050 to 999. Same with Jacky at 116 lbs. She does plan to try the 350 and 375 soon. We only had 400 prototypes to provide feedback on.

So for everyone wondering what we were using with the ART-999 in all those videos and reviews, now we can say. It was the Progressive tails. They are the perfect tails for the ART. They complement, and further reduce drag, to let the ART do itís magic better. Plus they really help it jibe and surf better.






« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 10:56:41 AM by Dwight (DW) »

SUPeter

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2021, 11:15:34 AM »
Just finished 2 good sessions on the 999.
First session. 15-25 kt downwinder.
Just bolted the foil on and went.  no need to change mast position or shimming in any way. Very predictable flight immediately.  A touch more sensitive to input but overall very forgiving.  Noticeably less drag and likes to glide a long ways before it stalls. low speed was quite good and never once fell off foil due to decreased speed.  High end speed is truly amazing and I don't know if I will ever find its limit.  20 mph was my top speed.  No matter how fast it went, control was never an issue and front foot pressure was minimally increased.  Very easy side to side roll. turns on a dime.  Tacks were either the normal long drawn out arcs or, if I desired, a very heavily angled, snappy turn. That was something I  had never experienced before,  on any other foil.  Pumping was expectedly good but will need more experience with to figure out its rhythm.  Upwind ability is very good. Maintains great speed.  Really loves gliding down wave faces and usually right up and over the wave in front of you.  easily controlled at very high speeds.  This will be a great wave winging foil.

2nd session- 15-25 kts in relative flatwater.  Does all the usual maneuvers with ease (tacks,both sides, 360s, jibes,).  I still need to get a feel for it on heel to toeside tacks.  Some felt so easy, others not so much.   Feels a bit different than I'm accustomed to.  I know someone has mentioned its ability to handle tip breaches easily.  I did not find this to be the case.  Tip breaches created a significant wobble which would usually bring me down to the surface.  I have some video of full aeration during a tip breach.  I was hoping this was not the case as my last wing performs well with the tips out.   360s felt easier than ever as this foil just glides and maintains speed for ever.  It also reaches wind speed faster which means a quicker transition to inverted wing.

Im sure this foil will be used far more than my other foils in winds from 15 kts and above.   Itll probably go even lower than 15 kts but the 1050 is so much fun , why would I?
Great foil overall and Im only just at the very beginning of learning it potential.

I have a youtube video but cant remember how to post it here.  Any advice?

Solent Foiler

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #113 on: October 28, 2021, 03:33:12 AM »
We finally reached the point where we can openly talk about the Progressive tails...

Great! I initially had the 400 on pre-order to use with the 999 but changed it to the 375 having used the 380 and wanting more manoeuvrability. Can you comment on whether I'll feel a big difference between the 380 and 375?
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Hipe v2 4'11 70L
Axis ART 999
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #114 on: October 28, 2021, 03:38:30 AM »
Can you comment on whether I'll feel a big difference between the 380 and 375?

Youíll feel the difference jibing right away. Youíll roll into and out of the jibe more fluid, with more speed on exit.


headmount

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #115 on: October 28, 2021, 03:26:31 PM »

 Never have I owned a tail that could totally eliminate hobby horsing at ALL speeds and ALL wave conditions.

Could you please describe 'hobby horsing' ?  I search this forum and the only reference to this term has been yours.  And thanks BTW for your extensive help on this thread and others. 

Beasho

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2021, 04:09:12 PM »
Could you please describe 'hobby horsing' ?  I search this forum and the only reference to this term has been yours.  And thanks BTW for your extensive help on this thread and others.

I have only 1 session on the 999 but experienced the 'Hobby Horse'.  With the higher aspect foils you need sustained speed to fly.  I was in WAY-WAY overpowered conditions, blowing 30 mph gusting to 40 mph, with a 5.0.  I figured flying would be easy.  I would sheet in and pitch up and start flying. 

BUT these foils are extremely sensitive to higher angles of attack, at low speed, and I would crash back down.  This happened over and over.  Up then smack down then Up and Smack down.  I eventually realized I had to very gradually lift the nose and let the speed increase gently. 

Then I could fly without the smack-down.  Once I was up and foiling there were not any smack-down incidents. 

A flat tail board and better technique may fix this.  Also note I bought the X-tra short fuselage which probably added insult to my poor technique. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 04:13:15 PM by Beasho »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2021, 05:05:17 PM »


BUT these foils are extremely sensitive to higher angles of attack, at low speed, and I would crash back down.  This happened over and over.  Up then smack down then Up and Smack down.  I eventually realized I had to very gradually lift the nose and let the speed increase gently. 



Haha, now you know why we all switched to planing bottoms. Just leave the board on the water, let it plane, then rise slowly. No need to pump the board, just a tiny wiggle pump if you do one.


This is not the hobby horse though. The hobby horse is when you are pushing a slow high lift foil beyond what it likes. Kane talks about a foils efficiency speed. Beyond that speed, it fights you. Pulsing surges. Too much lift from the front wing, too much lift from the rear wing. Flying at the foils max efficiency speed it will cruise under the surface in perfect balance. Expanding the efficiency range is the wholly grail.

My 116 pound wife suffered hobby horsing on nearly every foil. Only in the last year she finally got foils thin enough to ride smooth, easy, and fast.

If you ride slow, youíll never feel it. But who wants to ride slow. haha.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 05:07:51 PM by Dwight (DW) »

daswusup

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2021, 05:55:23 PM »
We finally reached the point where we can openly talk about the Progressive tails...

Great! I initially had the 400 on pre-order to use with the 999 but changed it to the 375 having used the 380 and wanting more manoeuvrability. Can you comment on whether I'll feel a big difference between the 380 and 375?

Funny! I did the exact thing. Ordered the 400 last night and then freaked out for 12 hours thinking I needed the 375. I requested to change and the nice folks at Axis sent me a $2 refund. Yes, $2 is the price difference in the 400 to the 375. Anyway, I am hoping for better sleep tonight. It is shipped and I am committed. I am a little sad because the shopping phase was short. I miss the shopping phase already. Its arguably just as fun as the foiling part. The reckless purchase of another foil part is exhilarating though....Anyone else suffer from this? Axis sells crack to us. The way they have my cc keyed in and its like 2 clicks and mine.

SUPeter

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #119 on: October 29, 2021, 06:00:34 AM »
Complete surprise.  The 999 will pump up onto foil in 10-12 knots.  Its not easy but pumping both board and wing increase speed quite nicely until your are getting some air.  This could be a heavily used foil.  Makes wave riding a dream.  I wish I would have used it for the SUP foiling session later that day.  I through   the 1050 on regretted it.  It felt so SLOW ! 

 


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