Author Topic: The ART 999 Thread  (Read 22122 times)

PonoBill

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2021, 07:35:37 AM »
With my moderate skills, I can get the 999 up to speed, flag out the wing behind me, and tack successfully, having an almost unconscionably long time to finish the maneuver. I've even over-tacked it, winding up in a broad reach before I get the wing pulling again. I start at the upper limit of height with a 90CM mast, with the wing gurgling, and finish with quite a bit of altitude and speed remaining.

I haven't tried the 1050, but with the 1150 I absolutely can't do that. I'm down in the water before I even get across the eye of the wind. Even powered-up tacks, pulling the wing over my head, are almost impossible with the 1150 for me and dead easy with the 999. It glides at least twice as far.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Califoilia

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2021, 08:54:09 AM »
Any body out there SUPing the 999?

Yeah, it was fun, but one must limit their expectations somewhat on a couple fronts. Can't wait until something shorter in the same shape comes out...if the rumor mill is true that is.  ;) :D

Tried to link to the below, but kept going to some other unrelated page, so here's from a few weeks back...

So myself, and our new Sano young gun tried the ART 999 in the surf this past week, and we both came to the same conclusion(s)...

1.) It has great initial lift, so much so that this is the first wing that I've ever had to push the mast back 3/4" (might even move it back more on the next session just to see).
2.) Pumps really well as might be expected, but you have to keep the speed up, because in the surf, it seems to have a much higher stall speed than I've heard others with windwings talk about...to the point that on the sup, I actually had to keep pumping it down the line once the wave died down a bit. This is something that I haven't really found the need to do with all the other lower - relatively speaking - aspect wings.
3.) As far as turning goes, you can make a longer, more drawn out turn with it, but trying to really surf it top to bottom...the wide wing span makes it a little difficult to transition top to bottom in comparison to some of the more "surfy", smaller Axis wings (BCS 810, PNG 850, or even the HPS 880) on a sup.

https://youtu.be/lxZT2-2hlbA

Final thoughts: I can see it as a great windwing wing for its great initial lift, and winging in 10-12+ mph winds will eliminate any of the higher stall speed issues we felt in the slower surf. If you do want to use it as a one wing quiver to wing and surf...when surfing it, just don't attempt to really throw it around, but surf it with longer turns in mind, and then just go and pump it back out forever... 👍🏽👊🏽😃
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 08:59:21 AM by Califoilia »
Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

Beasho

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2021, 06:13:16 PM »
My 999 should be arriving this week.

Meanwhile on Seabreeze KDMaui (Kane Dewald) had this to say about the Armstrong 725, but then busted into a rave review of the Axis 999:

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https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Wing-Foiling/Wind-Wings/Armstrong-HA725?page=1
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Here's a more detailed take. short version is its amazing that wings like this are available as production foils! The wings are basically what we've had for windsurf foiling forever but with the fuselage and mast geometry adjusted for much better riding with a wing or surfing. Im continually amazed at how many intermediate riders can ride these and it opens up a world of possibilities!

Make sure you use at least a -0.5 shim with 232v2/A+ 72 mast/60 fuse. I needed -1.5 with the V200 on the same setup.
I strongly recommend -1.5 on the 85 mast and -2 with 1125 on 85 mast. 85/60 and v tail might need -2.5.

70 fuse should massively reduce the needed shimming and in my experience is so much better for winging! It's also worth a shot surf foiling but I suspect the 60 is much better. Never liked the 50 much winging or surfing, though it could be sick with a big tail!

Otherwise these wings are amazing for winging! The glide, speed, jumping, and upwind performance are top of their class! They really do fly great! The big sizes take amazingly little power to stay on foil and the small sizes are little rockets. that video speaks for itself, you can see how fast and stable it is.

You can find the shim files on my site, Armstrong only offers + shims as far as I'm aware. I'll be updating my tail offerings to account for this and include shims for different front wings and mast lengths soon!

Also tried the 999/ultrashort/400/85 Alu and oh man was that fun! So dialed- easy takeoff, great glide and pump, surprisingly had decent top end and turning too! spent most of the time riding sitting down and even started making tacks without having to stand up! downwind is almost effortless and a good rider can ride without pumping at all. That wing definitely punches above its class.

If you buy, make sure you use the aluminum mast to get the best results. For Maui conditions its probably a rider's second foil after learning.


Another ride yesterday was the Lift 120 with FoilParts adapter and my 11.5" on long position. That setup just rides beautifully- The speed is between the 999 and 725, but closer to the 999. Pumping is at least as good as the 725, just happens at a lower speed making it easier to keep on foil. Talking about low speed, takeoff and tacking are easy too! The turning is actually amazing flat out, not just for a high aspect. It felt like playing with a toy. This is probably the most fun surf foil unless the waves are minuscule and you need a Kujira 1210 or something! Other stuff has a higher surf performance ceiling but this foil is probably more fun for more people. According to the feedback I have recieved, you need the 11.5" to get it to this level but of course that feedback and I are biased.

Might be time for some Youtube reviews . Soon I'll test the Gofoil RS, other Armstrong HA, Cabrinha, and some other good stuff too!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 06:18:18 PM by Beasho »

headmount

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2021, 11:57:49 PM »
I've been winging with the 999 recently and have some questions.   I've had some great runs but also that bucking bronco deal.  I had moved my mast forward from the 2.5 inch mark to the 3.5 mark.  Why, because when I lifted it upside down on land from that point just back from the leading edge of the front foil, 3.5 was where it balanced out.  But that was an extreme bronco ride.  SO I return mast back to 2.5 mark, which is where it was rock steady previously with the 1010.  Better with some good runs but still some bucking.  What's causing that??

I also tried placing wing and board leash on my new harness but went back to putting board leash on ankle. But it was nice having wing leash on harness.

bigmtn

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2021, 12:20:36 AM »
Tail? Shim? Fuse length?

flkiter

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2021, 04:07:36 AM »
Try riding the 999 all the way in the rear of the track. I ride all my other foils way forward but the 999 is special and likes to be far back.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2021, 04:10:02 AM »
I've had some great runs but also that bucking bronco deal.

Imagine youíre flying this.


Not a stunt plane. Radical pitch changes bad. I donít use a super short fuse. Speed and L/D is your goal in life.

Lowest drag tail stabilizer possible. Minimize pitch changes to maximize L/D. The reward is effortless glide and speed.

If using a stabilizer designed for normal front wings, you throw the whole kit out of maximum efficiency. My kit, never, ever surges. The most unlimited, neutral trimmed setup, at any speed, Iíve ever ridden.

Back of tracks for me. Middle of tracks for older chunky foils.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 04:12:08 AM by Dwight (DW) »

PonoBill

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2021, 07:24:45 AM »
I've never experienced that with the 999, but I use the short fuselage (which is pretty long) and a 390 or 400. I shim both to 3 degrees total incidence as is my more or less standard practice.

Moving the foil around in the tracks can change a lot of things, depending on your board. If the board is flat bottomed, all you're really changing is the relationship of the weight carried by the foil to the foil position. You can compensate for this by changing your position on the board if you're strapless, but strapped--even just a front strap--means you're doing other stuff to compensate, like leaning forward, or moving your back foot forward, both of which screw with pitch stability. If your board is not flat bottomed moving the foil in the tracks can change the total foil incidence angle relative to the board. For example, if your board has tail rocker, moving the foil back increases the negative incidence relative to the board--your wing will point down when the board is floating on the surface and to ride with the foil in a neutral position the board has to be nose-up

Don't treat Kane's idea about balancing the board upside down as gospel. It's mostly just a simplified way to position the center of lift at the center of buoyancy. But it's not precise.

I use a waist board leash and wrist wing leash. I think I'll probably switch to both on the waist when I get back to Maui. I don't like the "being ripped apart by chariots" effect of two leashes attached to separate appendages in surf. The only problem I have with a wing leash on the waist is that I'm pretty good at wrapping the leash around my neck.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jondrums

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Califoilia

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2021, 09:26:11 AM »
Try riding the 999 all the way in the rear of the track. I ride all my other foils way forward but the 999 is special and likes to be far back.
^^^ This ^^^

I ride all of my wings in the exact same spot (all the way forward)...with the exception of the 999! First time out in the "regular" spot in the boxes I could barely kept the nose down on takeoff, and just ditched it over the wave thinking I'd just pump out on it. Nope, once over the wave I still couldn't push the nose down to start pumping, and it eventually just stalled and stopped.

Went in, moved it back, and while better, still wanted to climb out of the water in a couple more attempts. Moved it all the way back in the boxes, and it became a super fun surf setup...sans the longer turns due to the almost 1 meter width of the wing.

So this wing needs to be ridden much further back than your other wings, and really much further back than you'd ever expect it to be able to work in that position. Apparently some sort of voodoo magic engineered into it. Lol... ;D
Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

Califoilia

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2021, 09:48:04 AM »
Don't treat Kane's idea about balancing the board upside down as gospel. It's mostly just a simplified way to position the center of lift at the center of buoyancy. But it's not precise.
^^^ This also ^^^

Kane's idea is a good place to start with a new board when unsure of placement, but as stated above, certainly not the gospel, precise, or perfect.
Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

Dontsink

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2021, 10:33:43 AM »
Don't treat Kane's idea about balancing the board upside down as gospel. It's mostly just a simplified way to position the center of lift at the center of buoyancy. But it's not precise.
^^^ This also ^^^

Kane's idea is a good place to start with a new board when unsure of placement, but as stated above, certainly not the gospel, precise, or perfect.

I think the key part about KD positioning is putiting the center of lift under the center of mass of the board (which is going to be close to the c of buoyancy)

Because the goal IMO  is to minimize pitch inertia and make the board more responsive overall and close to neutral when you  load the foil in a carve.

But every foil is different,so whatever works.


bigmtn

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2021, 04:31:35 PM »
I have mine just as far forward as my other wings, both prone and winging (3 different boards), no issues.
ultrashort, kane tail, no shims

jondrums

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #88 on: October 19, 2021, 04:58:30 PM »
When I look at the 999 and black fuselage, it looks like the wing is hanging out further forward of the mast than my other foils.  I assume this is why we all have to slide it back in the boxes a bit. 

soepkip

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Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #89 on: October 19, 2021, 10:48:52 PM »
kdmaui says If you buy, make sure you use the aluminum mast to get the best results

I wonder how stiff the Axis v2 carbon mast is compared to the Armstrong and the lift carbon masts.
And also how stiff it is compared to the Axis v1 carbon mast?

The Armstrong 725 and Lift 120  are not as wide as the Axis 999:
According to the Lift website the Lift 120 is 775 cm^2 and has an AR of 10.2 :
wingspan^2=10.2*775
This gives a wingspan of 88,9 cm
I suppose the Armstrong 725 has a wingspan close to the Lift 120
Will 10 cm less wingspan make these two wings not need a stiff mast like the Axis alu mast?

And will the Axis v2 carbon mast be better with for instance the HPS 830 because of its smaller wingspan?
Or is the weight of the rider the only factor to consider when deciding between the carbon and the alu mast?

 


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