Author Topic: The ART 999 Thread  (Read 12120 times)

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24889
    • View Profile
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2021, 07:16:57 PM »
I mentioned this also on Facebook, and Rob Pirie said this:

"Here’s my take on it. You are getting more tail lift from the anhedral 390, when you swap to the 400 much less lift but more speed so you need to increase pressure on your front foot. Too much back foot pressure at lower speed you with sink the 400 and it will cause the stall on the 999 ( I call it crushing the tail). So when the wind drops you need to push through your front foot and do mini pumps keeping the pressure on the front wing not the rear. Even try creeping your front forward a touch it does make a big difference on the 999."

That makes a lot of sense to me. For clarification, with the 390 tail I could NOT make the 999 stall. I tried when I was coming in at the finish of my session and finally had to just fall off the board--it would not come down, even when I spun it 180 after I had let go of the wing. Really, the best way to stop is to pitch it down and let the board slow everything to a stop, Even just maybe 2mph is enough for it to stay up with the 390.

So obviously I have some experimenting and tuning in my near future. All I want is the speed of the 400 with the persistence and stability of the 390. Not too much to ask. I think shimming might help a lot, but also I probably shouldn't be controlling pitch like it's on autopilot. More front foot.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24889
    • View Profile
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2021, 07:21:33 PM »
As such, I think it's the smaller surface area of the 400HA (196.24 cm²) compared to the surface area of the 390 (254.52 cm²) that's causing the stall issues at slower speeds. I find that the higher AR I go with front wings, the larger tail wing I need to ride. For instance, with similar sized front wings - the 910, 880, and 890 - I ride the 380 with both the 910 (6.8 AR), and 890 (6.43 AR)...but need the little extra tail of the 420 with the 880 (7.17 AR).

With the 999 in the surf I felt a similar stall problem during takeoffs when trying the 400HA last time out instead of the 420 which has only a slightly larger surface area (212.63 cm²), but it was really noticeably different.

The stall speed while pumping is still ridiculously high with the 420 and the unsuspecting sudden drop-off is a PITA, and makes it hard to connect waves since you have to keep the speed up when making the turn, and with it being so wide that's somewhat difficult to do.

So tmrw I'm going to throw in the regular/older 400 (291.18 cm²), and see what that will do pump/stall wise, cuz I'm thinking it'll turn just fine or even better being shorter that the 420, and still with some tips...just have to see if it'll be too slow. Should be fun no matter what, looking forward to tmrw morning. 👍🏽😊

I think have the new super dinky one. It looks ridiculously narrow and isection is very thin.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dontsink

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2021, 08:50:56 PM »
I
That makes a lot of sense to me. For clarification, with the 390 tail I could NOT make the 999 stall. I tried when I was coming in at the finish of my session and finally had to just fall off the board--it would not come down, even when I spun it 180 after I had let go of the wing. Really, the best way to stop is to pitch it down and let the board slow everything to a stop, Even just maybe 2mph is enough for it to stay up with the 390.



Is this a joke?.
Wish this were true,but it cannot be.Not possible in this world,laws of physics and all that crap.Slow down enough and it will stall,period.

Is there a  vid of this miracle?.

daswusup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2021, 09:28:56 PM »
I have only run mine with the 380/crazy short. It is kind of a PITA to get to foil in light wind but once up, I can stay up. I will try the chopped 400 next.  One thing I noticed as I was fondling my quiver in the garage was the angle of incidence of the 2 masts Carbon vs ALu was off by a fair bit. I would say 3 degrees. The ALU mast aims the foil more upwards than the carbon mast. See pic below. I am keen to try the 999 with ALU mast and see if there is easier lift off. Going back to the shim is intriguing too. It just seems like a a special foil that needs some tuning to get the most out of it. I am taking it to Maui for 10 days thursday and will get lots of 999 time. Oh Snap!

daswusup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2021, 09:32:19 PM »
more pics of the mast angles

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4459
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2021, 02:56:30 AM »
The trailing edge of the carbon mast is square to the base. The leading edge is tapered. It means the track placement between carbon and aluminum is “slightly” different. When you ride carbon go back in the tracks a little more.

If you ride all carbon, or all aluminum, you would never know the difference.

The 999 is plug and play simple to me. If you have a straight tail, no shim. If not, use shim.

Solent Foiler

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2021, 03:02:29 AM »
I have only run mine with the 380/crazy short. It is kind of a PITA to get to foil in light wind but once up, I can stay up. I will try the chopped 400 next...
If getting up is the issue, is it also worth trying mast shimming? I've got a 2mm mast shim to help getting on foil and I can't feel it  and doesn't change the foil dynamics once riding...
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Hipe v2 4'11 70L
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m
[History: Gong Pulse 2020 - 4m, 5m Gong Superpower 6m, Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL, 100 monoblock mast]

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24889
    • View Profile
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2021, 08:42:34 AM »
I
That makes a lot of sense to me. For clarification, with the 390 tail I could NOT make the 999 stall. I tried when I was coming in at the finish of my session and finally had to just fall off the board--it would not come down, even when I spun it 180 after I had let go of the wing. Really, the best way to stop is to pitch it down and let the board slow everything to a stop, Even just maybe 2mph is enough for it to stay up with the 390.



Is this a joke?.
Wish this were true,but it cannot be.Not possible in this world,laws of physics and all that crap.Slow down enough and it will stall,period.

Is there a  vid of this miracle?.
Nope, and nope. I don't have a speedometer of course, this is all just feel, but with the 390 tail the 999 will go as slow as an 1150. Why do you think I'm so confused about this? I'm sure if I got it going slow enough and held the nose up it would stall and drop but so far I haven't managed to do that with the 390 tail. I'm not saying this is the right tail to use for this wing, in fact, it's clearly the wrong tail wing. It slows the whole system down painfully. And it will definitely come down in a big lull--the nose points down and it coasts down to the surface. What it doesn't do is stall and drop. It most definitely will stall and drop with the 400. What I want is to get somewhere in between these two extremes. I have a lot of suggestions to try.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

StephenZ

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2021, 02:39:55 AM »
Shimming the rear wing (with the triangle shim) does seem to make a huge difference.  No sudden drops, gives plenty of warning, and only once going very slowly. I'm on a 420 rear.

Also felt the extra drag though, so doesn't come for free.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24889
    • View Profile
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2021, 07:49:59 AM »
I have only run mine with the 380/crazy short. It is kind of a PITA to get to foil in light wind but once up, I can stay up. I will try the chopped 400 next.  One thing I noticed as I was fondling my quiver in the garage was the angle of incidence of the 2 masts Carbon vs ALu was off by a fair bit. I would say 3 degrees. The ALU mast aims the foil more upwards than the carbon mast. See pic below. I am keen to try the 999 with ALU mast and see if there is easier lift off. Going back to the shim is intriguing too. It just seems like a a special foil that needs some tuning to get the most out of it. I am taking it to Maui for 10 days thursday and will get lots of 999 time. Oh Snap!

I had to add two more shims to my baseplate to get the aluminum mast trimmed flat. I use one 1degree shim for the carbon mast and three for the aluminum.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Califoilia

  • Axis Demo Rep
  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1426
  • San Clemente
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2021, 08:55:40 AM »
I had to add two more shims to my baseplate to get the aluminum mast trimmed flat. I use one 1degree shim for the carbon mast and three for the aluminum.
I still don't understand why some shapers continue to put tail rockers in foil boards...they're not surfboards!

Get the bottom so the fuse is parallel with the deck, and all of the baseplate shimming needs go bye-bye.
Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

winged surfer

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
    • View Profile
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2021, 10:27:25 AM »
So what’s the best tail wing for the 999?
Maybe the 400 HA?

Foilgeoff

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2021, 02:41:04 AM »
Any thoughts on how the 999 overlaps with other Axis foils?
I’ve read comments like it’s similar in bottom end to the PNG 1010, does that sound about right?
How does it relate to the top end of the HPS880?
Could it replace both?

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4459
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2021, 04:11:04 AM »
Any thoughts on how the 999 overlaps with other Axis foils?
I’ve read comments like it’s similar in bottom end to the PNG 1010, does that sound about right?
How does it relate to the top end of the HPS880?
Could it replace both?

It replaces my HPS-980, 880, 830 winging.

It replaced the HPS1050 winging sometimes, but not 100%.

SUP foiling it replaces everything when at New Smyrna, but not Cocoa Beach in knee high surf. New Smyrna waves have 50% more power than Cocoa Beach. In Cocoa Beach I need waist high.

Foilgeoff

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: The ART 999 Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2021, 09:56:25 AM »
Thanks Dwight.
Wow…

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2021, SimplePortal