Author Topic: Advantages of a smaller foil set up?  (Read 1860 times)

Caribsurf

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Advantages of a smaller foil set up?
« on: September 16, 2021, 10:46:57 AM »
Ok currently riding Fanatic Aero Foil 2000 with my Fanatic Sky wing board 95 liters.  I now make 99% of my gybes and stay on foil for as long as wind and wing cooperate.  I have ridden swells but no breaking waves as yet. I own 4m, 5m and 6m wings and wing foil comfortable  in winds up to 30 knots+ (right OBX Dave?  ;D

I don't want to buy an entire set, and since the Fanatic foil system is interchangeable, I have been eyeing the 1750 and 1500 foils, but just wondering what difference will I notice riding the smaller foils?  What advantages (and disadvantages if any) will I see?  I imagine they are not for lighter winds and larger wings....thanks as always for your expert input..

Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

VB_Foil

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Re: Advantages of a smaller foil set up?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2021, 06:33:07 PM »
Sounds like you are definitely ready for a smaller wing!!

When going smaller, the aspect ratio can come into play quite a bit. Your 2000 may be a mid to low aspect, which might have the same lift as a 1300-1500 higher aspect shape. Something to keep in mind, as you may be able to drop a more size than you initially think.  I can ride my 925HA wing in 17-20 mph w/ 4m easily for example. My 1125HA is comfortable 14+.  I started out on a low aspect 2400 and used that almost exclusively for quite a while. I didn’t think I’d ever be able to ride 800 range wings. I have a 625 to try as well!

The first thing you will notice will probably be speed and glide, as well as a more relaxing ride on your arms/shoulders. That 2000 wing has some drag to it compared to a wing half it’s size. Then you will certainly notice the increased maneuverability.  Also, if you ride a lot of choppy conditions (think i remember you mentioning that) the smaller foil will cut through the chop better.   Side bar: I kinda like a big foil in wind chop…feels sorta like snowboarding down a mogul run with 2’ of fresh powder. So in that analogy, the smaller the foil, the smaller those buried moguls feel and the more it turns into a powder field. Higher aspect will still cut through, but will be better at tapping into the energy when flagging out.


  If dropping a big chunk of CMs, throw a larger tail on to keep the stability before going smaller stab.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 06:40:58 PM by VB_Foil »
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
   4’10” 37L FSM
  

Foils: Armstrong HS625, HS850, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HS1850, CF2400
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

Caribsurf

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Re: Advantages of a smaller foil set up?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2021, 06:40:39 AM »
Hey VB thanks for that reply and information.  I do know initially I bought a foil too small to get me up on foil when first learning, so  once I started getting up on foil with the larger wings, I never thought about dropping down in size.  After reading so many posts here and guys riding very small foils, I figure there must be a reason for it.  The one thing I HATE is schlogging or having difficulty getting up on foil or having to work too hard to get up and that’s one reason I haven’t tried anything less than my 2000.

Now that I know what I am doing and my technique is better, maybe a smaller foil is possible . 

Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

Solent Foiler

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Re: Advantages of a smaller foil set up?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2021, 11:30:41 AM »
Just a follow up comment on the improved manoeuvrability of a smaller foil. Yes it means you can carve harder more easily, but the added bonus is that transitions become easier. A big, less responsive foil doesn't let you do micro adjustments mid transition - it just doesn't respond quickly enough, so you're locked into the turn you're doing. You have to have more precision...

A smaller more responsive foil allows you to be less precise entering a transition as you have the ability to micro adjust as you go through. This means that you can be way more aggressive in what you're doing. Downwinding for example, you get to benefit of have a more responsive foil to chase the swell, but you also can be more aggressive too as you have a bigger margin for error. Win win!
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Hipe v2 4'11 70L
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m
[History: Gong Pulse 2020 - 4m, 5m Gong Superpower 6m, Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL, 100 monoblock mast]

VB_Foil

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Re: Advantages of a smaller foil set up?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2021, 07:41:37 PM »
Well said Solent. I agree.  Smaller foils demand more attention, but reward said attention. (Beginners do not have said attention on offer)

To back up what I said in my previous post. I just had a light wind (10-15mph) session with a ‘beginner’ wing foiler who was riding a slingshot 5.4 meter with a hoverlglde 80 or something (around 2000cm) with a roughly 95 Ltr board. Rider was same weight as me, around 65 KGs. (He’s and expert wind foiler who just spent three months out west - Chrissy field - and rode a 2.8 meter windfoil rig every day).   

Point is I was on my 1125HA wing with 5M BRM and 60L board and we were getting going in the same gusts, with no apparent advantage (except that I have more experience, but I was not noticing any deficiencies in his technique).  That’s a wing almost half the size. Just different aspect ratio. I had a somewhat noticeable advantage upwind and speed wise but it wasn’t mind blowing.

So if you are looking for a high wind wing, I’d say go sub. 1000 if you are looking at the newer HA wings.

Side note: I tried the gybe/backwind 360s for the first time today and nailed my 4th and 5th attempt.  Psyched! What worked for me over the previous attempts was flipping my rear grip palm up when going into the transition and really committing to the upwind rail.   (Alright back to reading Dune).
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
   4’10” 37L FSM
  

Foils: Armstrong HS625, HS850, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HS1850, CF2400
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

daswusup

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Re: Advantages of a smaller foil set up?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2021, 06:52:15 AM »
Nice 360's VB! Don't be afraid to pump the foil through that 360. I saw in Clay's Johnny H video that he was just holding the strut with his hand through the backwind instead of the handle. I listened to Damo's podcast with Joey Pasquale and he said most fast racers are on 600-800cm wings. Not sure that really applies to us though. But point being that the better we get at getting the foil on plane, the smaller we can go. My ART999(1010cm) is tricky to get up in lighter wind but once up creates mad amounts of apparent wind. I tell intermediates don't get off that big wing until you are hitting gybes consistently. Big slow wings can really help to learn to fly without leaning on the ding. As in during transitions when you are switching hands. This is probably the biggest problem for folks struggling with transitions.

Oahuwaterwalker

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Re: Advantages of a smaller foil set up?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2021, 11:51:50 AM »
Ok currently riding Fanatic Aero Foil 2000 with my Fanatic Sky wing board 95 liters.  I now make 99% of my gybes and stay on foil for as long as wind and wing cooperate.  I have ridden swells but no breaking waves as yet. I own 4m, 5m and 6m wings and wing foil comfortable  in winds up to 30 knots+ (right OBX Dave?  ;D

I don't want to buy an entire set, and since the Fanatic foil system is interchangeable, I have been eyeing the 1750 and 1500 foils, but just wondering what difference will I notice riding the smaller foils?  What advantages (and disadvantages if any) will I see?  I imagine they are not for lighter winds and larger wings....thanks as always for your expert input..

I think the benefits are partially dependent on the conditions your ride. For flat water or small wind swell, the benefits will mostly be experienced as increased speed. Once you get into wave riding, the smaller foils really start to shine. Specifically, I've found that as the waves go up in size and/or power, a smaller front foil helps to keep you from breaching when dropping in. This really starts to matter as the waves start getting overhead or are more powerful. On GPS, I'm starting to hit 18-19mph on the drops and the smaller foil helps you focus on your line instead of trying to keep it from breaching. I went from an Armstrong 1850/1250 combo to a v2 1550/1250 and then recently dropped to 1250/1050.

Ultimately your choice of front wing size is influence by both wind speed and wave size/power. Riding the 1050 on a windy day in mushy waves wasn't as fun as it would have been on a 1250, but riding the 1050 on a windy day with overhead or faster waves is crazy fun.

Hope this helps.

165lbs
Riding
Jimmy Lewis 4'8 69L Custom
Armstrong A Wing
HA925 and HS1050

 


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