Author Topic: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs  (Read 12138 times)

surfcowboy

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2022, 08:25:13 AM »
Everything that Dwight said and this. One of the challenges of downwinding is the balance between a foil slow enough to get on foil vs a foil fast enough to keep up with unbroken open ocean swell once you are up. That's a battle for everyone.

I don't DW but I wing in DW conditions sometimes and Hdip and I hang with a bunch of people who do. This is based on that mostly for me. The speed unbroken swell goes is crazy. Also boat wakes can be moving fast as well of course. So a big slow foil will lift at way below planing speed (and you can use that flat tail in waves or with a wing) but a foil that can stay on swell might need to be moving pretty quick to foil.

Bottom line, there's way more to DW than paddling up on foil.  ;D

kwhilden

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2022, 09:01:22 AM »
Thanks all for the comments. This is super interesting as I design my first board.

I won't be down-winding, but I will be learning to foil and wing using low aspect foils in an area with predominantly lighter winds (10-20 knots).  I'm also interested in SUP surfing in small waves.

I'm trying to decide whether to build my board as a pintail, or a square tail, or perhaps a round tail.

Given my use-case, are there any drawbacks to using a pintail design?
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burchas

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2022, 11:49:29 AM »
Board weight- almost 18 lbs (8kgs) Hollowed out with chambers( saved 1 lb)  1/8' divinicell with 3K carbon twill over standing area. All covered with 4.8 oz Carbon/Innegra 2x2 twill and 4 oz glass. vacuum bagged.  This board should last a lifetime and is strong enough to handle the often times harsh Maine coast. Double laps on the rails - one could give those rails a good whack with a hammer and still not ding it.  So far I have downwinded it with good results, SUP foiled
on 3-6 foot waves twice, very nice, and winged with it twice, also very nice.  An incredible winging machine in ultra light winds. I'm pleased and am glad I did not go the ultra-narrow route as Dave Kalama has.  At least not yet anyway.  I weigh 155 lbs.

Construction sounds fantastic SUPeter. What's the distance of the tracks from the tail and how did you come up with it?

BTW, if by now you feel it's too wide for you, I'll take it off your hands :D
in progress...

surfcowboy

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2022, 06:43:31 PM »
Kwild, build it for what you, not what you might do.

Go wide and make it easy unless you're an expert foiler and need to crank turns that I can't imagine. Pin tail boards are not made to be "fun" per session. Not that they aren't in the right hands. But just know that you're seeing one design from one shaper for a sport that maybe (maybe) 100-200 people world wide can do. Don't base your first board on this and don't teach your 15 year old to drive in a Ferrari, right?

My beginner SUP was 28" wide and square as heck and really food watermen (and me) struggled to paddle it. What part of the world are you in? Try to borrow a board to learn on if you can.

Solent Foiler

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2022, 01:34:26 AM »
Great view of Jeremy Riggs' pin tail here and how narrow that board is!

https://youtube.com/shorts/PcVYWYCnaag?feature=share
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EastCoastFoiler

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2022, 04:48:15 AM »
One more.  Specs- 6’3 x 25” x 5 3/4”.   110 L

@SUPeter is that the lot at Popham?  Rode there a bunch last summer.  Always trying to sniff out some more foilers to ride with on my maine trips(visiting wife’s family in the summers)

That deep water energy there hits way different than here in SC, wave is moving much faster than our crumbles down south.  This type of board seems perfect for matching that speed on catch.  My micro prone stuff catches slow SC swell great, was miserable up there.

Also with that swell speed pumping back is a lot harder(covering a ton of distance on wave) so sacrificing pump for paddle seems fair.

PonoBill

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2022, 02:48:40 PM »
I wouldn't even consider a pintail for a first board. Far less stability, especially when you weight your rear foot, and no particular advantage for a beginner. Early on if you are SUP surfing your board, a squarer, flatter tail offers both stability and a shove from the wave. Beginners tend to like whitewater since it gives a free shove as long as you brace well against the substantial push. Pintails would be fine for beginner prone foil boards, they need some paddling speed.

That Kane video is very interesting. He's great to talk with, his skill level is through the roof as well as his technical knowledge, but unlike most of the really talented foilers he's so analytical and sensitive to nuances that his observations are useful even for a faker like me.

I got the idea of raising my back hand to to bring the wing more vertical so I could go faster and more upwind from Alan Cadiz but refined it substantially after talking with Kane. For example, I was nervous about sticking the tip into the water going upwind since it usually makes the wing flip which translates to an instant faceplant for me. KD told me it doesn't tend to flip if you're powered up and close-hauled. But you want to just brush the wing against the water every so often, and control the height with knee bend so you have the most control over it. If you drop it down by lowering your front and back hands your arms are in a weak position for control. After about a week of practice and I could keep the front foil wing making sucking noises and brush the water with my wing. With the 999 and the 400/60 tail the speed is flat out spooky but smooth, and it goes upwind at a downright stupid angle.
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kwhilden

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2022, 03:18:10 PM »
Thanks all.  Given that I don't even own a foil yet, and I'm already designing my first foil board. I'm putting the cart before the horse. 

But I love interesting board design problems just as much as actually riding them.   
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LaPerouseBay

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2022, 11:15:39 AM »
Great view of Jeremy Riggs' pin tail here and how narrow that board is!

https://youtube.com/shorts/PcVYWYCnaag?feature=share

Here's another view. 

https://youtu.be/fywJZ3V-Trc

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SUPeter

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2022, 08:17:33 AM »
  I have recently spent 3 days foiling a local river wave on this board and am super stoked I went 25" wide.  This board was stable enough to navigate the boils during entry onto the wave and fast enough to paddle onto the wave face with ease.  Touchdowns go almost unnoticed and with a few slight hops, I am back up on foil.  Do I desire a narrower board?   From the standpoint of shear curiosity, of course, and i will probably be making one soon.  But.....I must say that this board has exceeded my expectations in every venue that I have it tested.  SUP foiling- far superior.  Winging- As good as my dedicated straight tail wing board.  Downwind SUP- I have had no trouble getting up on foil in the bumps so far.  Maybe the smaller wings will be different.  River Wave foiling-  Very, very easy.  The narrowness that exists (25") makes deep carving very easy.  No need to worry about driving the rails into the water's surface.
Yes,  This is Popham Beach where some of these pics are taken.

SUPeter

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2022, 06:02:23 AM »
Having just finished a 8' x 20" x 6" Barracuda style board, here are my impressions:

1)  Very fast, obviously. Can finally get that long awaited flat water pop-up.
2)  Much more stable than anticipated.  Even in a running swell I am able to paddle around standing quite easily.   For one, more length adds to stability.  Also, Sea kayakers have often known that a narrow and long sea kayak is far more sea worthy than a wide, long sea kayak.  A flat hull wants to stay parallel with the waters surface. If that surface is pitching and rolling, so is the kayak. A narrow hull will maintain its level position much more easily in pitching and rolling seas.  And so it is with the "Barracuda" style board. Especially a board with a mast and foil attached. I will use this board for most of my SUP foiling outings as well.
3) The added length of the nose gives the front end the inertia to withstand the influence of boils and bumps at high speed. This may be more of a benefit when foiling on turbulent river waves but can also help when charging down big rolling swell.
4) a lightweight nose allows for more agility/maneuverability.
5) a heavier than most foil rig may also help with stability.  I use an Axis rig and the additional weight may give the board a better righting moment. I'm considering filling the empty space in my lower mast with lead flashing cut to size, LOL. Who knows?
6) The narrow width allows for deeper carves without touching down on the edges.

There is probably more but I cant think of anything else at this time.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 06:14:13 AM by SUPeter »

 


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