Author Topic: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs  (Read 12141 times)

SUPeter

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Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« on: September 14, 2021, 08:51:25 AM »
Hello everyone,
Anybody make their own downwinder, pintail?  You know Da Kine. Those beautiful boards that Kalama is making and everyone is using in the gorge and in Hawaii.  I'm considering making one for downwinding and for just straight up SUP foiling.  Thinking of going long and narrow, 6'3" x 25".  Very thick!  Just wondered as to how stable they are and how narrow I could go. Just thought I'd put this out there in case anyone had ever used a board like this.  I'm growing tired of pulling 20-30 lbs of water behind me every time I SUP foil my 6' Fugly  (beveled tail), or my 5' 6" wing board.  I feel that more speed is going to make catching unbroken waves a hell of a lot easier.  Who knows, maybe I'll even have a bit of success with a flatwater start?  Keep dreaming!

surfcowboy

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 08:05:13 PM »
A couple buddies have them. I’ll report in when I get eyes on one.

Dontsink

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 11:39:02 PM »
https://youtu.be/ZOL8C0cnVMY

Here you can see KDmaui's downwind sup,which he uses for light wind wingfoil too.
Pretty extreme pintail,at some point in the vid he comments that he went too far on the pintail and that next one would have some more surface...cannot remember the exact words but something like that.

SUPeter

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2022, 10:20:12 AM »
Board report- 6'3" Kalama inspired downwinder pintail. 
   Had a week off just as I finished my downwinder board.  Managed to test it on a 30-40 kt downwinder, 2 days on beach surf, and one day winging with it.   As with all things, one hopes he is not making so many compromises that the end result does not do anything well but many things poorly.  I'm sure catching small offshore bumps would be easier on a 22-23" wide board but maintaining stability in those conditions would have been a handful.  I'm glad to say that I like the 25" width and increased stability. It still takes off on windblown swell easy enough.  It also paddles onto the flattest beach break I have ever paddled onto.  The board makes SUP foiling so much less exhausting for both getting on waves and paddling back out.  Not as stable as a radiational SUP foil board but definitely manageable.  As far as winging, It takes off as easily as my dedicated wing board with a straight tail.   I'm pleased all the way around.  It's as close as I can get to an all around foil board.

burchas

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2022, 06:45:42 AM »
This is great! stoked for you 8)
Your specs and board pictures will be most helpful and greatly appreciated respectively :)
in progress...

SUPeter

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2022, 05:27:23 AM »
I’ll try to post pics!

SUPeter

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2022, 05:28:29 AM »
Here is another.

SUPeter

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2022, 05:29:59 AM »
One more.  Specs- 6’3 x 25” x 5 3/4”.   110 L
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 05:32:34 AM by SUPeter »

burchas

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2022, 06:17:35 AM »
That's perfect dude! As if you scooped it from the Kalama warhorse and sanded off the serial number along with the paint job ;D

So to have a complete picture, what's the board weight and what's your weight?

Thanks for posting 8)
in progress...

SUPeter

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2022, 06:37:46 AM »
Board weight- almost 18 lbs (8kgs) Hollowed out with chambers( saved 1 lb)  1/8' divinicell with 3K carbon twill over standing area. All covered with 4.8 oz Carbon/Innegra 2x2 twill and 4 oz glass. vacuum bagged.  This board should last a lifetime and is strong enough to handle the often times harsh Maine coast. Double laps on the rails - one could give those rails a good whack with a hammer and still not ding it.  So far I have downwinded it with good results, SUP foiled
on 3-6 foot waves twice, very nice, and winged with it twice, also very nice.  An incredible winging machine in ultra light winds. I'm pleased and am glad I did not go the ultra-narrow route as Dave Kalama has.  At least not yet anyway.  I weigh 155 lbs.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 07:11:09 AM by SUPeter »

kwhilden

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2022, 07:16:19 AM »
I love this design.  Why do you think it works so well to reduce drag while getting up to speed? 

Also, does it allow pumping similar to the older flat wedge-tailed board?  Seems like that's one of the advantages of the design. 
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surfcowboy

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2022, 07:54:02 AM »
As to drag, look at race boards and surf skis. This is a baby unlimited in a lot of ways. We only vary from those design principles to make it able to stand easier.

Example, the serious guys in HI are riding these at 22" wide or less. Prone versions are 20" wide. Longer, thinner, more tapered is faster. Optimize for those and you go quick. If you can stand on it. This version is a great example of choosing the compromise you can live with. 25" wide is likely the sweet spot here.

I've ridden the 23" Kalama and it's tough but dang fast.

kwhilden

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2022, 06:13:51 PM »
Interesting vid above.  At some point, he says that the board is the most important factor for getting onto a foil in light winds.

I assume that's because of the drag factor of the bottom shape?  Hence the pintail concept to approximate an efficient displacement hull that minimizes drag from the tail. 

Does that mean that foils take off at displacement speeds?  Or does a board sometimes have to reach planing speed before the foil has enough speed to generate lift?
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Solent Foiler

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2022, 01:13:19 AM »
As to drag, look at race boards and surf skis. This is a baby unlimited in a lot of ways. We only vary from those design principles to make it able to stand easier.

Example, the serious guys in HI are riding these at 22" wide or less. Prone versions are 20" wide. Longer, thinner, more tapered is faster. Optimize for those and you go quick. If you can stand on it. This version is a great example of choosing the compromise you can live with. 25" wide is likely the sweet spot here.

I've ridden the 23" Kalama and it's tough but dang fast.

It's a fascinating development and it's where I kinda thought things might end up (if this is the destination!) - the basic physics doesn't lie! And it shows how different applications need different solutions - compare to the square tail, another emergent foil trend, which is almost the total opposite of this!

I'm keeping an eye out for the 2022 Casey Sunova downwind foil boards to see what they settled on as a practical width. I'm interested in getting a DW board in future for leaning paddle ups so I can eventually wake thief the ferries here on no wind days, and maybe the occasional DW, skills permitting! 'An incredible winging machine in ultra light winds' also sounds good!
I'm 5'10", 66kg riding:
Swift Foil Boards custom 4'10 x 19.5" 35L
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Axis ART 799, 899, 999,1099, US & CS Adv fuse, 85cm mast
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm and 65cm mast
Takuma RS 5.1, 4.3, 3.5
[Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m]

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Downwinder Pintail Board Specs
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2022, 04:56:55 AM »

Does that mean that foils take off at displacement speeds?

Some do and some don’t, but all generate some amount of helping hand with any forward movement.

I’ve paddled Dave’s 5’2 x 28. The force to pull the paddle is half what my personal board was. So all my boards now feature the Kalama influence.

For winging, I feel this lower drag design allows the board to “start” moving easier in what I call no wind conditions. Then once a little forward motion has started, the wind wing gains enough pressure to be more effective pumping. Then I can get the board to the planing speed needed for fast foils to lift. The whole process is easier to execute than with a simple straight wide tail.

It’s also better in waves. Less drag from tail touches.

The plain planing bottom is more sensitive to water surface texture when getting going. The Dave bottom, doesn’t care about the water surface texture.

I’ll do a video about it eventually
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 05:47:28 AM by Dwight (DW) »

 


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