Author Topic: Board Stability/Selection Advice?  (Read 4087 times)

B-Walnut

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Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« on: August 27, 2021, 10:52:40 AM »
Looking for a bit of advice while I shop for my first board.

Right now I'm learning to wing foil on a takuma 7'10" and am up and foiling when there is good wind. My goal is SUP foiling on the Oregon coast, and learning to wing so I understand the foil first.

My traditional paddleboards are a carve pro 120l 8'2" and a starboard blend element 143l 9'8". Both are great boards, but I do struggle to stand outside the break on the carve pro when it's windy/choppy whereas the starboard is pretty stable. Some of this is skill and experience for sure. I'm at 190lbs.

Shopping for my first SUP Foil board I'd like to find something that is quite stable in choppy churning conditions. I paddled the takuma above in 15 knots of wind and swell on the river and found it extremely stable.

Can anyone give advice on how much stability is lost as the board gets shorter, but has a 1500 foil down below? I'm wondering if I can go as short as 5'10"? Or if I need to go longer to avoid a lot of frustration in the beginning?

Greatly appreciated.

norcom

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2021, 03:06:29 PM »
I had the 7'10 Takuma convertible. Now I have 5'10 Slingshot Outwit 100L. Unless it's perfectly glass smooth and flat I can't even stand on the 5'10 long enough to catch a wave with a paddle. It's great for winging and ultra light kiting with a GL240. Perhaps if I put more time on the Outwit with a paddle I would get better but going that short is definitely a major learning curve. At least for me.

B-Walnut

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2021, 07:58:06 PM »
I had the 7'10 Takuma convertible. Now I have 5'10 Slingshot Outwit 100L. Unless it's perfectly glass smooth and flat I can't even stand on the 5'10 long enough to catch a wave with a paddle. It's great for winging and ultra light kiting with a GL240. Perhaps if I put more time on the Outwit with a paddle I would get better but going that short is definitely a major learning curve. At least for me.

Did you ever try to paddle the 7'10"?

With the slingshot, do you think the length, or the volume is the bigger factor? I'm seeing surf sup foil boards at 130 liters for a 6' board. I definitely know length matters, but I wonder how tippy it is with all that volume added?

Hwy1north

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2021, 08:52:58 PM »
Did you ever mention your age and weight?  Winging you want a board to learn on, then when you are making your jibes, you'll want something short and volume specific to where you ride.  Say you are 85kg (with a 5mm wetsuit) and reasonbly young or older but very skilled already in windsurfing, kitefoiling, or sup foiling, then using a 4m and 5m wing, an ideal board would be 5' - 5'6" and 85-100ltr.  If your time is spent with a 6m most of the time, then a little bit bigger, but not much.  Sup foiling is also condition specific.  From what I remember sufing Oregon in the 1990's, is that most spots are outer sand bars that are kind of mushy and biggish, then a channel of some sort, and then beach break in pretty shallow water.  At 85 kg, a 5'6" 110 liter board is doable for an experienced foiler and surfer, but learning will be futile.  Until you can paddle pump onto foil before a wave pitches, you're going to want that 6'5" ish 120 liter board to get surfing, then lift off once past the drop.  That same board is ideal for learning to wing foil.  A 7'10 Takuma is all wrong imo for learning winging as it is very difficult to lift those old designs with 2 feet of tail behind the mast (unless you're on a windsurfing foil like a Slingshot 84.)  Same goes for sup, but ok to learn.  Use it to get your timing down paddling into waves.  It's a good board to try to paddle and lift slowly.  Takuma Helium foil 1500?  That should be a good pairing to your board for sup, and for lighter wind winging on a smaller board.  Again, weight, age, fitnes, etc matter a lot.  Bottom line, the ultimate winging board will be too small for sup, and the perfect Oregon coast board will probably be too long to be perfect for winging, but you may very well be happy with one in the middle once your skills are matched.  I don't actually have a Kalama, but for discussion purposes...I'm 85kg, and a 6'6" Kalama is a dock for me.  Perfect for learning either sup or wing.  A 6'0" Kalama is a pefect size for sup for me, as an experienced foiler, surfer, and sup'r.  But it is a lot more difficult.  On the wing, it's plenty fun, but I'd be wanting a 5'0".  The 5'5" is only doable sup when very small, no wind, no current, and wide open chanels, and even still, I mostly paddle prone until about to catch the wave.... It's a great board for winging in shark country because I can knee start easily.  Hope this helps?!

B-Walnut

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2021, 02:12:51 AM »
@Hwy1north

Yep, my heaviest weights listed at 190. Age 37. I never wear more than a 4/3 in the gorge or in the ocean but I doubt there's much weight difference in comparison to a 5mm. Have never foiled before this but I get about 100 days a year on my surfboard as a kiter plus as many SUP surfing days as I can, maybe 25 a year at the moment?

I've got 3 sessions on the big 7'10" with an old pelican foil and short mast on it. Even though it's big and requires a lot of wind to get up and moving, it's been a breeze to learn on. I can stay up on foil for full reaches across the gorge now. Have been playing with jibes as well as pumping the foil and disengaging the kite. I also took this setup for a paddle on rough water in the gorge on a windy day to test the stability. With the foil down there it's the most stable SUP I've ever stood on.

The new 6'0" Kalama is going to come in at 131l and the 6'6" at 141l which sounds like a lot of volume to me. Why do they pack so much volume into the boards?

Your sizing feedback is definitely valuable though. I still don't see the allure of the wing foiling. It's fun for sure, but I can't see it replacing the strapless freestyle and wave riding I do. My goal really is to aim for SUP foiling, not trying to advance as a winger. Sounds like the 6'6" might actually be a good choice? I do wish I could try and take the 6'0" for a short paddle though. It would be really nice to be able to confirm if I can stand on it comfortably or not.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2021, 05:37:24 AM »

The new 6'0" Kalama is going to come in at 131l and the 6'6" at 141l which sounds like a lot of volume to me. Why do they pack so much volume into the boards?


The more volume you pack into it, the shorter everyone can ride.

B-Walnut

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2021, 08:48:17 AM »

The new 6'0" Kalama is going to come in at 131l and the 6'6" at 141l which sounds like a lot of volume to me. Why do they pack so much volume into the boards?


The more volume you pack into it, the shorter everyone can ride.

So, with the foil attached more volume = more stability? My experience on a regular sup made length and width seem more important.

pafoil

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2021, 09:15:30 AM »
Hi,
I think you should look at:
-width. main variable, 26 to 30 for a novice.
-volume, 20 to 60 litres for a novice.
-length. important if you are not an expert paddler, then 6 and above.

At least this is my experience after 4 boards and finally ending on a 5,6 by 26.

Hwy1north

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2021, 11:01:02 AM »

The new 6'0" Kalama is going to come in at 131l and the 6'6" at 141l which sounds like a lot of volume to me. Why do they pack so much volume into the boards?


The more volume you pack into it, the shorter everyone can ride.

So, with the foil attached more volume = more stability? My experience on a regular sup made length and width seem more important.

Well, sort of, yes, and no...  I mentioned the Kalama boards because the wide nose and square rails offer stability.  Also, he (did?) put an FCS fin forward of the mast to help keep the board straight paddling.  For foiling, volume is your friend up to a certain point as the farther from your mast you go, it can start to feel a bit unconnected.  Length is your enemy once on foil, but necessary to learn how to paddle onto foil....  also, rows and rows of white water and currnt are a bitch on a slow moving short water line board.  Once you are good enough to stay on foil after you "kick out" and pump back out for 3-in-ones etc. you can handle that short board.  If you can stay on the ol Takuma until you are up and flying and trying to pump back out, I'd then consider a volume of about 120-130 for your weight and age and where you are (Oregon) as an intermediate foiler.  You can also gain stability with a board like the wide tailed Quattro Drifter Pro, etc. which packs a lot of volume in a short board, but I wouldn't want to learn on it imo.

norcom

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2021, 05:13:33 PM »
I had the 7'10 Takuma convertible. Now I have 5'10 Slingshot Outwit 100L. Unless it's perfectly glass smooth and flat I can't even stand on the 5'10 long enough to catch a wave with a paddle. It's great for winging and ultra light kiting with a GL240. Perhaps if I put more time on the Outwit with a paddle I would get better but going that short is definitely a major learning curve. At least for me.

Did you ever try to paddle the 7'10"?

With the slingshot, do you think the length, or the volume is the bigger factor? I'm seeing surf sup foil boards at 130 liters for a 6' board. I definitely know length matters, but I wonder how tippy it is with all that volume added?

Yes, I’ve paddled the 7’10 with the foil. It’s MUCH easier to balance on than the 5’10 Slingshot Outwit. I never wingfoiled with the 7’10 though. I’m guessing it’s the length AND width. I think the longer width adds the extra stability. My buddy picked up a 7’6 Outwit and maybe one day I’ll try it and know more. Though I’m also paddling in wind chop and not real, clean waves. So there’s that.

SUPdad

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2021, 05:57:55 PM »
My opinion is to go with a board about the same volume as the SUP you’re fairly comfortable on, more width and more squared off shape is good. And probably no shorter than about 6’…but also not much longer than 6’. ;D Short wide boards have no glide but aren’t too hard to balance on.

burchas

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Re: Board Stability/Selection Advice?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2021, 06:30:57 AM »

The new 6'0" Kalama is going to come in at 131l and the 6'6" at 141l which sounds like a lot of volume to me. Why do they pack so much volume into the boards?


The more volume you pack into it, the shorter everyone can ride.

So, with the foil attached more volume = more stability? My experience on a regular sup made length and width seem more important.

Based on my experience, width would be the more important factor, volume 2nd. Board shape matters a lot all things equal. Wide tail
and boxy hard rails made big difference for me. Stability wise, length didn’t seem to make much difference (I'm sure that's to a point).

Easy transition from a hybrid 8’x31.5” 127L to a 6’3”x28.5 129L Kalama inspired board. I’m about your weight but older.
My 6’3 feels to big for me winging but manageable. keeping my goal in mind, downwind foiling, I feel I can progress to this board and
keep with it for a while.

A buddy of mine went from a Starboard Hypernut hybrid similar in size to your Takuma to a 6’ fanatic. Foil Surf on the Hypernut he has much success.
On the Fanatic he is struggling. Not a balance issue, his timing seems completely off. To me is looks like paddling straight and picking up speed while working
on timing and positioning for waves is the bigger issue for him. I know it's an issue for me while working on catching downwind bumps sup foiling.
 
If I were you knowing what I know now, I would keep a Takuma 7'10 when playing with waves in the ocean but most likely would be on a 
Kalama E3 5’6 or 5'10 when winging. At some point with enough practice you should be able to progress to this board in the waves.


in progress...

 


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