Author Topic: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro  (Read 2879 times)

EastBayFoiler

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wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« on: August 02, 2021, 08:15:18 PM »
Hello,
I recently joined the forum. I got into winging because I picked up a wing and it just started talking to me. I've been doing this about a month getting out every other day as conditions and wear on my body allow. I'm getting at the point where I'm mildly annoyed with how big, heavy, and floaty my board is, so I'm starting to wonder what's next. Also it seems like it's best to know what you want a month or 2 in advance with the way things are flying off the shelves.

I weight 200lbs and am typically out in the SF Bay. I currently have a 125l Naish hover GS. As far as I understand it, a good rule of thumb for a second board is around your body weight in kg e.g. I'm around 90kg, so a 90l board should be good. The part that I wonder about is how much does a few liters matter? Like will I notice a difference between 85 and 95l? Is 75l just foolish?

Thanks.
AK Phazer 90L, Axis 1060BSC/440

Badger

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2021, 06:01:35 AM »
Welcome EBF, I've got the same board/foil setup as you. I have only had four sessions so far and the first three were in very light wind. My fourth session was in 15 - 25 mph winds and I quickly discovered that my foil was too far forward. I could not keep the board in the water. Unfortunately, I did not have my tool with me that day.  I've since moved it back an inch and can't wait to get out again to test it. We don't get much wind in NH this time of year so it can be a long time between sessions. By mid to late August, I will have all the daily wind I need.

Right now, the board feels perfect for learning but I expect to downsize once I get used to flying the foil. I'll be 64 in a few weeks so I don't see myself going to a really small board. I need enough float to get me back to shore safely. Going from 125 to 90 seems like a pretty big jump. Going lower than that all depends on your skill level.

.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 07:05:34 AM by Badger »
Naish S26 Hover GS 125L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp V1 4m/5m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 64yo

PonoBill

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2021, 07:43:51 AM »
The only issue, of course, will simply be managing to get going. At 1L per kg, your balance will have to be excellent and your agility high. the nose will sink and just keep going, the tail ditto, the sweet spot for just kneeling will be fractions of an inch either way. It's essentially like learning to ride a unicycle with fewer scraped elbows.

Remember that the board weight, and some of the foil weight ( unless your foil assembly floats) have to be considered as well. Some small boards are just stupid heavy (I'm looking at you Fanatic) but call it 20 pounds. that makes the total 99.7kg. 100L will be a challenge, 90 will be a sinker, anything smaller and you might as well go all the way to 75. You'll have to learn to get on it while it's underwater and ride it to the surface with the wing pushing you along.

You didn't mention your age or athletic ability. I'm 74 and 100kg. I've been doing this for two years. Besides my 120+ L Flying Dutchman I have a 106L SIC Manta. I can ride it, but I don't. It's a pain in the ass. The only way I'll consistently be on a board less than 110L is if I lose more weight.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

radair

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2021, 07:54:08 AM »
I just went through this same internal debate. I'm ~70 kg naked and learned on a 115L, 5'-8" board. I've done a lot of wake foiling and would prefer the smallest board possible for winging. I considered a 60L or 75L board and decided to go with the 75, mostly because it was almost exactly mid-way in terms of length and volume between my 115L wing board and 38L prone board, which some day I hope to wing on.

Badger

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2021, 09:27:23 AM »
I currently have a 125l Naish hover GS.


Since we are running the same board and foil, can you tell me where you have your foil set in the boxes? How far is the plate from the rear end of the box?

.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 09:30:33 AM by Badger »
Naish S26 Hover GS 125L - Axis BSC 1060/440 - Ozone Wasp V1 4m/5m
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 64yo

Phils

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2021, 10:56:36 AM »
Based on my personal experience and watching friends, for a standard knee start in well powered conditions, I don't think -10 is any more difficult than +10.  Experienced wingers have no problems knee starting -20 boards.  My next board will be -15.

Again, my comments are for knee starting in well powered conditions.  If it gets light or you have to surface ride back, then you will be happier with positive buoyancy.

Also keep in mind that surface area matters when you are considering boards of similar volumes.

PonoBill

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 11:15:41 AM »
Based on my personal experience and watching friends, for a standard knee start in well powered conditions, I don't think -10 is any more difficult than +10.  Experienced wingers have no problems knee starting -20 boards.  My next board will be -15.

Again, my comments are for knee starting in well powered conditions.  If it gets light or you have to surface ride back, then you will be happier with positive buoyancy.

Also keep in mind that surface area matters when you are considering boards of similar volumes.

Do you think that would have been true for you at 1 month in?
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SurfIC

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 12:24:37 PM »
I would 100% go for +10L. Anything less as u r only a month would be frustrating. I'm a year in and my +10L board has been a fantastic 1 board quiver. I will still keep it for light wind as I've just ordered a prone - 25L board but this will be for powered up conditions or for sale shortly if Im too crap..
Naish 5'2 85L, Gong Matata 4'11 55L
Gong 85 Carbon mast, 95 Alu V2
LT 1450 and XLT 2100 Curve Pro Wings
Various Stabs

EastBayFoiler

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 02:19:52 PM »
Welcome EBF, I've got the same board/foil setup as you. I have only had four sessions so far and the first three were in very light wind. My fourth session was in 15 - 25 mph winds and I quickly discovered that my foil was too far forward. I could not keep the board in the water. Unfortunately, I did not have my tool with me that day.  I've since moved it back an inch and can't wait to get out again to test it. We don't get much wind in NH this time of year so it can be a long time between sessions. By mid to late August, I will have all the daily wind I need.

Right now, the board feels perfect for learning but I expect to downsize once I get used to flying the foil. I'll be 64 in a few weeks so I don't see myself going to a really small board. I need enough float to get me back to shore safely. Going from 125 to 90 seems like a pretty big jump. Going lower than that all depends on your skill level.

.



I run my mast all the way back. It took me a second to get a feel for it. I kept breeching and stalling at first. I place the ball of my rear foot across the end of the little foam ridge for the rear foot strap mounts. It does like a little fore foot pressure, but you'll have to figure that out as you go. I also usually don't bother going out in less than 15 knots for now, my pumping game needs work. PM/email me if you have more questions.

You didn't mention your age or athletic ability. I'm 74 and 100kg. I've been doing this for two years. Besides my 120+ L Flying Dutchman I have a 106L SIC Manta. I can ride it, but I don't. It's a pain in the ass. The only way I'll consistently be on a board less than 110L is if I lose more weight.

I'm 37 and as far as I can tell I have better than average balance and agility, possible more. It's the kind of thing that's hard to rate. I'm managing my board and stand up with little difficulty in heavy chop on a regular basis. I'm progressing pretty quickly as far as I can tell, which is part of what's motivating this, but mostly I want a set up that easier to handle on land. If I'd know how easy the 125 was going to be for me on the water, I would have just gotten the 110 just to save those few inches in length that are just annoying me to no end.

So what I'm kind of getting is that at buoyancy=(body weight + gear)  can be touchy, every liter above that gets progressively easier, having a just a little less than that is a whole different ball game.  I appreciate everyone's considered response. This has given me a few things to think about.

BTW which companies tend to make lighter boards? It seems like they don't really like publishing that data on their sites.


AK Phazer 90L, Axis 1060BSC/440

cnski

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 06:56:34 PM »
If you want a light board you will need to go custom.

bigmtn

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2021, 04:42:12 PM »
you
re young and athletic, go with 90L give or take 5.  It'll be tough at first, but after a couple sessions, you'll figure out the balance.  When you feel really comfortable with the new board. Then try something in the 45-55L range for a real fun time trying to get going!


Solent Foiler

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2021, 05:47:12 AM »
Hi EastBay

I'm 65kg and my progression went from 120L 7'4, to 95L 5'4, 34L 5'3 and 65L 4'6 which is my only board at the moment as my 34L 5'3 died.

My comments on riding the 65L (kg=L) would be:

- wait until you're regularly gybing before going too small. If I had to restart my 65L after every second gybe, that would be a PITA, especially under 15 knots. If you can't get foiling, getting upwind on a smaller board can be a PITA because you have to keep forward movement to stay floating, which means bearing off wind. I am very mindful to keep upwind when it's light and bug out early if I get caught out and get taken downwind of my launch spot by the tide which can really rip where I am. I actually have to do (short) walks of shame on my 65L which I never did on my 95L when it's 10ish knots and I drop off the foil and can't get going again. I can manage those risks easily where I am.

My comments on riding the 34L would be:

- sinker boards are great, and don't have to be difficult. My 34L (-30) sinker was 5'3, so had a long waterline and lots of surface area. I could get going pretty easily in 15 knots with that shape using footstraps to assist in controlling the board underwater. I was expecting a real battle to get to grips with it but I lucked out with the board shape which made it relatively straightforward. [I'm planning on building a replacement this winter.]

My comments on riding the 95L (+30) would be:
- safe as houses. Was happy to go into exposed situations (offshore breeze for example) as I knew I could shlog back upwind. Performing was really good, and I enjoyed the board a lot. I experimented with smaller foils before going smaller board, which really amped up the performance too. I suggest you consider that too as an option.
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Hipe v2 4'11 70L
Axis ART 999
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m

Hwy1north

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2021, 09:19:10 AM »
Eastbay,
You said you run your mast all the way back!?  That will make the board feel too big.  Try running the mast towards the front of the box.  Ideally, you want find the balance point where when you stand on the board, you are balanced and as you pump the wing and foil, everything feels right.  Wrong would be the nose goes under water (move foil slighty back...)

I am 85kg and went from a board 6'6" x 29" 125l to an Amundson Johno Sup 5'6" x 26" 100l as soon as I could make my jibes 95%.  The difference was huge.  I suspect your 31" wide board is the biggest drawback, not the volume.  SF Bay chop is brutal, and wide boards touch down a lot.  I wouldn't go too small unless all you do is Sherman Island, because most sites are tide sensitive.  If you have an 85cm mast and a 75l board, you'll be sitting in the mud a lot.  If you go out at Larkspur, you can try my Amundson.  Dwight on this forum makes great custom boards. https://www.supsurfmachines.com/

EastBayFoiler

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2021, 04:57:18 PM »
Eastbay,
You said you run your mast all the way back!?  That will make the board feel too big.  Try running the mast towards the front of the box.  Ideally, you want find the balance point where when you stand on the board, you are balanced and as you pump the wing and foil, everything feels right.  Wrong would be the nose goes under water (move foil slighty back...)

I am 85kg and went from a board 6'6" x 29" 125l to an Amundson Johno Sup 5'6" x 26" 100l as soon as I could make my jibes 95%.  The difference was huge.  I suspect your 31" wide board is the biggest drawback, not the volume.  SF Bay chop is brutal, and wide boards touch down a lot.  I wouldn't go too small unless all you do is Sherman Island, because most sites are tide sensitive.  If you have an 85cm mast and a 75l board, you'll be sitting in the mud a lot.  If you go out at Larkspur, you can try my Amundson.  Dwight on this forum makes great custom boards. https://www.supsurfmachines.com/

I should say most of my complaints are about handling the board on land, and I'm pretty sure it would be a bit easier to get on it if it would sink a bit more. I don't really have complaints about the board on foil.

I usually go to Marina Bay, Larkspur is a close second on my list of places. Would definitely love to check out the board if that works out. Thanks! PM sent.
AK Phazer 90L, Axis 1060BSC/440

Phils

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Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2021, 04:12:16 PM »
At your age, don't be afraid to go small.  You will have to do some work to figure out the balance point while kneeling but that will come very quickly and then you are set.  It is an expensive mistake to be too conservative and get a board you will out grow quickly. 

People who are pleased after downsizing boards because they had no trouble did not downsize enough in my opinion.  You should have some struggles in the beginning when you change to higher performance equipment (board or foil).

 


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