Author Topic: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95  (Read 3039 times)

Board Stiff

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KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« on: July 28, 2021, 01:24:16 PM »
After losing my konihi 95 paddle :'( that I've been using for years, I'm trying to decide whether to replace it with another of the same or switch to the mana 90. I've read through all the the existing threads here a couple of times already, but I'm still uncertain. Some of the observations from these threads that have stuck with me:
  • Mana is slower in flatwater: I don't race a lot any more, but even when touring or paddling for fitness, I don't want to go much slower at a given level of effort than I can with my Konihi
  • Mana is more forgiving of sloppy entry (less susceptible to Konihi's "toilet flush" effect if not perfectly planted): This sounds like a good thing, as I'm often paddling in choppy coastal conditions where getting a perfectly clean catch every time requires more concentration than I'm prepared to sustain.
  • Mana is most efficient in 1st 1/3rd of stroke, less so afterwards: Does this mean I'll generate less power per stroke with the Mana, or that the same amount of power will be concentrated more in the 1st 1/3rd than in the rest of the stroke? I tend to have a long, heavy stroke and pull hard on the paddle all the way back to my feet with my Konihi. If the Mana helps me shorten my stoke and pick up my cadence a bit with the same amount of power and effort, that would be a good thing. If it just has a more limited effective range and will make each stroke less powerful overall, then I'd probably be better off sticking with the konihi
  • Mana feels like a relatively larger paddle (i.e. 90 feels more like a Konihi 95): I started with a Maliko, then tried a small Konihi (hated it) and quickly traded that one for the 95 konihi. I tend to prefer a long, heavy, slow stroke and really don't like the fast cadence needed to get the most out of a smaller paddle, so I wouldn't want a paddle that feels distinctly smaller than a Konihi 95.

I'd appreciate any feedback from KeNalu users on whether I should try the mana or stick with the konihi.

Thanks!
BS


burchas

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2021, 06:25:51 PM »
The Mana is much more refined blade imo. Very efficient and good power. No brainer for me.

I consider my self to have solid stroke and even at 82 SQI I can't keep up with the paddle unless i'm in really good shape.
I could easily go with a Mana 72 SQI (if only) and be a happy camper for the most part, especially surf/foil.
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PonoBill

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2021, 06:45:44 PM »
In either case, your stoke quality governs the size. If you aren't surfing or downwinding you have time to get a good catch. Both the Mana and the Konihi are designed to make up for a mediocre catch by keeping the water on the face of the paddle from easily flowing to the backside. If you had a perfect catch, with all the air off the back of the blade, there would be no place for the water on the face to go, so the wings wouldn't help. Not many people can do that, so the Konihi and Mana make up for any sloppiness.

Konihi has more aggressive wings, so it's a somewhat brutal catch monster. People who are used to it have no problems with it, but put it in beginner's hands and they will hate it. The Mana is a little more refined, and depends a bit more on the paddler giving a decent stroke. The Konihi punishes every poor catch, the Mana doesn't.

I use a Konihi more than any other paddle. I like the Mana for surfing, and for casual use, but I'm fastest with a small konihi, second fastest with a big Konihi, then both mana's, then everything else. Going fast with the small Konihi requires total concentration. If I start picking daisies I'm slow. The big Konihi doesn't require as much concentration, the Mana just takes whatever you give it and makes it good.

Bottom Line: If you're used to a big Konihi you're unlikely to ever feel you're doing as well with anything else.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 06:48:45 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Board Stiff

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2021, 07:44:38 AM »
The Mana is much more refined blade imo. Very efficient and good power. No brainer for me.

I consider my self to have solid stroke and even at 82 SQI I can't keep up with the paddle unless i'm in really good shape.
I could easily go with a Mana 72 SQI (if only) and be a happy camper for the most part, especially surf/foil.

Burchas - Thanks for the feedback. Have you used the Mana 90, and if so, do you feel ths same about that one? 

Board Stiff

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2021, 08:28:04 AM »
In either case, your stoke quality governs the size. If you aren't surfing or downwinding you have time to get a good catch. Both the Mana and the Konihi are designed to make up for a mediocre catch by keeping the water on the face of the paddle from easily flowing to the backside. If you had a perfect catch, with all the air off the back of the blade, there would be no place for the water on the face to go, so the wings wouldn't help. Not many people can do that, so the Konihi and Mana make up for any sloppiness.

Konihi has more aggressive wings, so it's a somewhat brutal catch monster. People who are used to it have no problems with it, but put it in beginner's hands and they will hate it. The Mana is a little more refined, and depends a bit more on the paddler giving a decent stroke. The Konihi punishes every poor catch, the Mana doesn't.

I use a Konihi more than any other paddle. I like the Mana for surfing, and for casual use, but I'm fastest with a small konihi, second fastest with a big Konihi, then both mana's, then everything else. Going fast with the small Konihi requires total concentration. If I start picking daisies I'm slow. The big Konihi doesn't require as much concentration, the Mana just takes whatever you give it and makes it good.

Bottom Line: If you're used to a big Konihi you're unlikely to ever feel you're doing as well with anything else.

PB - Thanks for the feedback. Lots of good info here, and I want to make sure I understand it!  :D

It sounds to me like you're saying that with a perfect stroke, the Konihi outperforms the Mana, but that the Konihi's performance is more dependent upon stroke quality. So for example, if you were to graph both paddles' performance as a function of stroke quality, the Konihi's performance would be higher at 100% clean stroke, but it would decline at a faster rate as stroke quality degrades.

Does that sound right, and if so, might the Mana 90 be as fast as the Konihi 95 in conditions that compromise stroke quality (fatigue, chop, etc)? I'm not racing much these days and mostly paddle in "flatwater" with enough chop that I'm rarely getting a perfectly clean catch, so I'm trying to understand if the Mana's greater tolerance for sloppy stroke might make it a more effective paddle for me, despite the pure speed edge the Konihi has under optimal conditions. Put another way, if the Konihi is 10% faster than the Mana under optimal conditions and stroke technique, but the Mana is close to equal or better when I'm tired, the water is choppy, and my stroke goes to hell, I'd be faster most of the time with the Mana.

I'm also wondering if in clean and or race conditions where I'm actually really concentrating, might the Mana be easier to paddle at a slightly faster cadence and thereby offset some of the performance difference assuming identical cadence?

Thanks!


Rideordie

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2021, 01:45:28 PM »
Here's my two cents.  I have both blades and I am much faster on the Mana and I like it better.  I agree with Burchas comments that the Mana blade is much more refined.  I use the Mana on a 100 flex shaft and it rips.  I can achieve and maintain a higher cadence with the Mana.  Agree that the Mana is more forgiving and Konihi requires more concentration and punishes you, when you get it wrong.  You have to be more careful setting the blade with Konihi.  The catch also seems to be more immediate with the Mana and more gradual with Konihi. 

Maybe I am wrong, but the Konihi blade seems to flex more and requires that you use a lower stroke rate to "regain the flex energy" at the end of the stroke.  Seems like the Mana blade is stiffer to me and does not penalize you for pulling the paddle out sooner.  At least that is what I am feeling.   Does that make sense to anyone else?

For me the Konihi might be a good touring blade where you can take your time with very purposeful strokes and enjoy the feel of the water, which is nicer in some ways.  The Mana to me is more about speed.  Faster catch, higher stroke rate, quicker and cleaner exit of the water.     
     
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
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SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2021, 02:57:30 PM »
Rideordie - is your Mana experience with the smaller blade or the 90? Also, it sounds like you prefer paddling with a higher cadence. Does the Mana require a higher cadence to be effective or just make it feel natural to quicken your cadence a bit without an increase in perceived exertion. If the latter, that sounds great to me. But I tend to paddle with a slow, plodding cadence, so if the Mana is better suited to high-cadence paddlers, then it's probably not the right blade for me. Thanks!

PonoBill

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2021, 07:40:20 PM »

PB - Thanks for the feedback. Lots of good info here, and I want to make sure I understand it!  :D

It sounds to me like you're saying that with a perfect stroke, the Konihi outperforms the Mana, but that the Konihi's performance is more dependent upon stroke quality. So for example, if you were to graph both paddles' performance as a function of stroke quality, the Konihi's performance would be higher at 100% clean stroke, but it would decline at a faster rate as stroke quality degrades.

Does that sound right, and if so, might the Mana 90 be as fast as the Konihi 95 in conditions that compromise stroke quality (fatigue, chop, etc)? I'm not racing much these days and mostly paddle in "flatwater" with enough chop that I'm rarely getting a perfectly clean catch, so I'm trying to understand if the Mana's greater tolerance for sloppy stroke might make it a more effective paddle for me, despite the pure speed edge the Konihi has under optimal conditions. Put another way, if the Konihi is 10% faster than the Mana under optimal conditions and stroke technique, but the Mana is close to equal or better when I'm tired, the water is choppy, and my stroke goes to hell, I'd be faster most of the time with the Mana.

I'm also wondering if in clean and or race conditions where I'm actually really concentrating, might the Mana be easier to paddle at a slightly faster cadence and thereby offset some of the performance difference assuming identical cadence?

Thanks!

That's pretty much it. Lots of people are faster with a Mana than a Konihi, but I think that's mostly a technique issue. The better your technique is, the less difference there is between the blades. If I were starting fresh or making the transition from a beginner paddle to something race-y I'd go with the Mana. But I'm used to the Konihi, and the "toilet flush" is exactly what I need to remind me to pay attention and clean up my stroke.

There's no question the Mana is more refined--Lane designed it based on what he learned from the Konihi.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

burchas

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2021, 08:45:39 PM »
The Mana is much more refined blade imo. Very efficient and good power. No brainer for me.

I consider my self to have solid stroke and even at 82 SQI I can't keep up with the paddle unless i'm in really good shape.
I could easily go with a Mana 72 SQI (if only) and be a happy camper for the most part, especially surf/foil.

Burchas - Thanks for the feedback. Have you used the Mana 90, and if so, do you feel ths same about that one?

Iíve used both Mana 90 and Konihi 95. You might guess that if the 82 was hard for me to keep up with, using Mana 90 was like mixing cement and konihi 95 felt like hitting cement.

My feeling about is that if youíre not a serious racer, even if thereís some loss of speed for you with the Mana (which I donít believe to be the case), all the other benefits of this blade makes for a better experience overall and you are easier on your body with the refined smaller area blade.
in progress...

Rideordie

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2021, 05:43:05 AM »
I have the Mana 90. Pono and Bill have more experience and better perspective than me. I used to love paddling the Konihi blade, but now I use the Mana exclusively. The Mana is more forgiving and I think it has a quicker catch and better release. All of these things add up to better speed for me. I would say I am a power paddler and donít have a super high cadence, but I can reach an hold a higher cadence with the Mana. It does have a powerful catch as Burchas mentioned. I could probably go with a smaller blade, but I am happy with what I have. I weigh about 197, if that helps.  I donít think you can go wrong with the Mana. 
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

Board Stiff

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Re: KeNalu mana 90 vs konihi 95
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2021, 05:32:29 PM »
PB/Burchas/RideorDie, thanks for the additional feedback! Sounds like the Mana is worth a try, and probably a better fit for my less competitive approach to paddling these days.

 


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