Author Topic: High Performance SUP suggesting  (Read 5088 times)

surfmore12

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High Performance SUP suggesting
« on: July 26, 2021, 07:33:00 AM »
background- short boarder for 30 years. Been supping now for 5 years and love it.

Currently having fun on the 8'6 Quatro Glide AST using a traditional thruster set (center fin a 4.5" fin).

So much fun in 1/2' to 6'. Doing turns, floaters, etc.

Looking to go more HP without sacrificing too much stability.  I'm 6'0, 195lbs.

Any suggesting?  Thanks for any feedback/help!

APPST_Paddle

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2021, 08:31:24 AM »
Yeah, I was similar, except a longboarder for forever, then just mostly kiting with a strapless surfboard, then to SUP and love it. Mainly because of where I live and the lack of waves with a ton of power.

I'm a bit lighter than you - 175 lbs. but my progression went from a 8'8" Naish Hokua X32, which I'm guessing is like the Quatro down to a 8'1" Jimmy Lewis Worldwide and it was a massive jump in performance, the drop to a 8'2" Supertech even more of a jump. The biggest thing is getting a thinner rail, but still being stable. I've ridden JP's, Sunova, F-One, Naish a ton of different boards and JL seems to be the most stable for it's size and best construction out there.

Also, think about if you want a more shortboard oriented board or something mid-length with some glide.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

surfmore12

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2021, 08:56:57 AM »
more shortboard

sflinux

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2021, 09:53:01 AM »
What are the dimensions of your shortboard?
For shortboard performance, I would think you would want to go narrow and short, with as low as volume as your weight.  But it is difficult to do that directly, easier to make small steps to work your way down to your final level.  Right now you are on a guild factor (gf) of 1.46, with a 32" wide board, 130L.
If you compare APPST_Paddles (6' tall) progression, he started on a gf=1.76 x 32" wide board, then went to a gf=1.41 x 29.5" wide board, then a gf=1.32 x 28.5" wide board.
With your current gf =1.46 (8'6" x 32" wide, 130L), you may want to consider boards like
Step 1:
JL Destroyer 8'5" x 30.5" 130L gf=1.46
JL Superfrank 8'6" x 30.5" 130L gf=1.46
JL Supertech 9'1" x 30.5" 128L gf=1.44
JL Superfrank 8' x 31.5" 127L gf=1.43
Step 2:
JL Destroyer 8' x 30" 115L gf=1.29
JL Superfrank 8' x 30" 115L gf=1.29
JL Superfrank 7'6" x31" 115L gf=1.29
JL Supertech 8'8" x 29" 112L gf=1.26
Step 3:
JL Supertech 8'3" x 28.5" 105L gf=1.18
Genration Kanga 8'1" x 28.5" 103.2L gf=1.16
Genration Kanga 8' x 28.25" 100L gf=1.12
Step 4:
Genration SP25 7'8" x 27 11/16" 95.3L gf=1.07
Genration SP24 7'10" x 26 13/16" 94.8L gf=1.07
JL Supertech 7'10" x 27.5" 94L gf=1.06
Genration Kanga 7'9" x 27 5/16" 91L gf=1.02

In my opinion, even a 7'4" x 29" SUP still feels like a midlength.  If you want a true shortboard feel, you have to go to a SUP foil which is even shorter in length (i.e JL Flying VM 5'8" x 27" 95L).
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 10:24:44 AM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Jimmy Lewis, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 200#, 6'2"

surfmore12

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2021, 11:56:27 AM »
Wow, thank you for the info.  I really appreciate that!

I was thinking maybe an 8'4  (130L, 30" wide) Quatro Carve Pro as my next step down.

or a Starboard Pro 8'0 - 29" 121L

PabstSUP

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2021, 12:53:52 PM »
I'm similar dims to you - 6'3", 195lbs.  My performance board for the last few years has been my 8'4"  110ltr Sunova Flow, though I've been itching to go down a bit in size for the really good days, though I still fall off of it now and then in bumpier conditions.  I'll take out my 128ltr Sunova Speed when I know it's going to be really mushy and bumpy without much juice. 

I would think you could go down 15lts if you're looking for more performance.  Any of the JL boards mentioned might work and I would also consider the Genration SP25 8'2" x 29 1/2" x 115ltrs (I'm looking at getting a 7'11"). I saw one for sale in Florida on Sean Poyter's IG feed and had I been closer I would have made the trip to pick it up. 




Hobie Raw 8'11
Sunova Flow 8'4"
Sunova Speeed 8'10
SIC Bullet 14' ASS

slsurf

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2021, 01:44:44 PM »
I focused on dropping volume while keeping a reasonably stable outline for my step down. It just feels more surfy if you can get on to something thinner. Lot of good suggestions, I think the 8'0 destroyer or similar might be a good complement to your other board, although you will be paddling slower which could be a consideration depending on what you want to do.

"In my opinion, even a 7'4" x 29" SUP still feels like a midlength." So true, shortboarding it isn't but so glad I'm doing it.

OkiWild

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2021, 10:43:43 PM »
The problem I find with going down and down in size, especially for former pronies like you and I, is there's a point of diminishing return, and once you hit that point, it goes downhill fast.

What attracted me to SUP wasn't the performance, but the glide, the being able to stand around and see waves approaching way ahead of time, and get in the best position way ahead of time, catching thirty-two waves every time I go out, the ease of the paddle to the outer reefs or way down the coast to get away from everyone, surfing for four to six hours without getting physically destroyed, and on and on.

But we know what the performance of a shortboard feels like, and pretty soon we start chasing that performance on a SUP. Then you hit a point where the performance plateaus, and all the reasons I got on a SUP are greatly diminished. An 8' board with a 1:1 guild feels like you're digging yourself out of a hole. You don't want to paddle that to a reef a mile out. On surging reef break, you don't stand around on it, you have to sit, jumping up when a set shows. A set you didn't see way ahead of time because you were sitting. Only because it's a SUP, you can't scramble to where you need to be, or maneuver nearly as quickly as being on a shortboard.

I found myself thinking "This is stupid. I'd be so much better off on a shortboard." There was literally zero advantage to being on a SUP. All of the advantages were eaten up by the small size, and all I was left with is a board that doesn't surf nearly as well as even a 7' mid-length.

And then I got back on a SUP longboard, found myself laughing and having a great time again.


Just my experience, and possibly something to think about once you feel that performance curve start to bottom out  ;)   

PonoBill

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2021, 06:54:27 AM »
Wow, Oki--spot on. I kept going short too, finding more performance and less fun. then I went back to 10'4" and started up the fun engine again.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

slsurf

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2021, 02:34:18 PM »
My experience was once I could ride a smaller board (certainly not 7' 1.0 guild of okis comparison yikes) my stoke for sup increased a ton. Everything I hated about sup: not being able to hang on to the board, having to roll in from way outside, lack of control and rail feel on the wave, ability to maneuver on the wave all these problems either went away or were greatly improved. Its hard to generalize on a forum best to try a bunch of boards if you can and find out what works for you and the conditions you are in. Most would say one board can't do it all.

surfmore12

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2021, 04:28:05 PM »
Well said OkiWild!! 
Thanks for the feedback!

And it is why I sup what you said.

My Quatro 8'6 Glide does give that Glide, trim, flow.

 The first day I supped a solid 4-6' wave I was so blown away by how early I got into waves and way outside... I was not used to that. My wave count was 5 to 1 to most and my waves were longer. I also could paddle way down the beach to try new peaks. 

Thanks again



surfmore12

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2021, 07:20:58 AM »
But there is a twist why I want to HP sup like a short. I had a total hip replacement and I still can't pop up on my little 5'9.. so supping is my only form of surfing right now.

dpmaui

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2021, 02:27:09 PM »
If you want hi-performance, try an asymetrical tail SUP they work amazing and really put the fun back in surfing.

NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2021, 05:09:58 AM »
But there is a twist why I want to HP sup like a short. I had a total hip replacement and I still can't pop up on my little 5'9.. so supping is my only form of surfing right now.

Check out the Genration Wedge.  Reading the comments above its exactly what you want.  its not just a 'blown up shortboard' like a JL Supertech (I had one)  its a SuP designed to perform as a shortboard.

I have the 8'2 118l and im 215 lbs.  I ride it with my back foot square on the pad and barely move my front foot to turn.  and thats unheard of on a SUP.   The board isnt sunk when I stand on it either becase of how the volume is dispersed.

Check out Ig videos of Daniel Hughes (Danielsup) to see the board in action.

It isnt an 'everyday' board.  I ride in in big and glassy/good conditions.  maybe 20% of the time.

surfmore12

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Re: High Performance SUP suggesting
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2021, 06:36:46 AM »
That is the board I'm leaning to. Thanks for your help!

 


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