Author Topic: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?  (Read 2170 times)

matanshapira

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Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« on: July 24, 2021, 09:24:42 AM »
Posting for a friend:
I Kite-Foil for 2 years (small kite, big front wing, strapless) and would like to foil also when there's no wind.
I never surfed with a surfboard or a SUP and would like to read your advices:
Which will be easier and safer for me to start with?
Better to practice without a foil first?
The phantom 1480 by F.One would be good to start with (weight 65kg)?
* Hoping to get comments from people who had a similar (lack of) background
** Hoping to get comments from people who do both 

Califoilia

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2021, 12:49:40 PM »
I surfed until my neck told me that I was no longer going to be paddling around lying down holding my head up, so then I went to SUP (about 10 years ago), and then went to SUP foiling (about 4 years ago, and haven't SUP surfed since).

If you've never prone surfed before, the getting to your feet part when trying to prone foil will be a challenge, and honestly, quite dangerous during that learning phase since you now have a machete in the way of the foil attached to the bottom of your board, rather than just some much shorter knives as fins.

At least with SUP foiling, you'll first have to learn how to paddle board adequately enough before ever attempting to actually surf foil it, so you'll increase the safety factor 10 fold just by doing that. Then, once you've decided you're ready to push it into a wave, you're already standing, and with the certain wipeouts you're going to have, you can at least push the board and machete away at the first sign of impending doom, and keep yourself well separated from the weaponized side of the board - for the most part - still wear a helmet and some sort of impact vest when starting either discipline.

Good luck, it's a great sport regardless of what style you eventually decide to pursue...prone, sup, wingding, or all three.
Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

toolate

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2021, 08:50:47 PM »
why is he protection impact vests and not impact arm and legs?
Hte scariest wound i saw on a foiler was a thigh gash less than an inch from the femoral artery

Badger

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2021, 04:05:31 AM »
Learning to surf on a foil with no prior surfing experience would be next to impossible and extremely dangerous.

SUP surfing is easier to learn than prone surfing. SUP will also be easier to foil after you learn to surf. Learning to surf will likely take a year or two depending on how old you are and how often you practice.

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« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 04:22:53 AM by Badger »
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surfcowboy

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2021, 08:06:38 AM »
Agree, leave the foil for 6mo to a year..learn the wave, then add a foil back in.

SUP will be easier to learn. But if they’ve never surfed and can, learn to prone surf too. It’s a worthwhile hobby and a ton of fun as a beginner. Surfing is the heart of these sports and should not be overlooked or skipped.

Hwy1north

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2021, 10:13:40 AM »
Agree, leave the foil for 6mo to a year..learn the wave, then add a foil back in.

SUP will be easier to learn. But if they’ve never surfed and can, learn to prone surf too. It’s a worthwhile hobby and a ton of fun as a beginner. Surfing is the heart of these sports and should not be overlooked or skipped.
[/quote
What he said. 
Regarding the 1440 foil; for a 65kg rider, the 1440 will be way too big for prone and probably too big for sup unless learning in really weak waves.  Weak waves are short period like 8-10 seconds, strong waves are 16-20 seconds.  Sup in 3 foot waves at 20 seconds means the wave is travelling fast so catching is difficult because you have to get your board moving fast to catch it and once going, the foil will be lifting quite a bit.  A slow wave is easier to paddle into at the same wave height, but will require a larger foil to keep lifting.  So weak waves and small foil is pure frustration, and strong waves and large foil is pure danger!  I find the foil that works for sup foiling and winging are usually the same, and if you have a surf foil for kiting, it's probably good for prone.  I can't imagine a 65kg rider using a 1440 for kiting...?  And then there's mast length.  70-75cm is ideal. ]

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2021, 08:35:14 AM »
Agree with everything here, I was similar, I learned to foil on a kite. Except I was a pretty experienced SUP surfer (started a year or so ago foiling - and barely SUP surf now). I'll tell you picking up kitefoiling was pretty easy in comparision. Kitefoiling you don't have to think about generating speed to get up on foil, nor controlling much once on foil because you have a very controllable throttle. SUP will be easier, but......not as easy as kiting.

Another thing is, if you don't have great SUP form, I feel like foiling just points out weaknesses even more (foot placement, too long of a paddle, etc.)

Good luck it's way way more fun than kite foiling.
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StandinDan

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021, 10:06:56 AM »
I agree with everyone here and would highly encourage learning to SUP first. When your friend works it down to good proficiency on an 8' SUP then they'll be ready for a foil. Please start out with a good kayaking helmet, impact vest, and I even wore a football cup. Why is an impact vest important? Because they're relatively cheap, got mine for $30 at Big5 and it saved me plenty of times. The day I thought I was good enough not to wear it though, I cracked a rib on a relatively benign fall... Also ask Califoilia, one of the best guys at SanO, about his three days in the hospital with a collapsed lung from a blow to the chest. Speaking of falls, this sport is like judo, if your know how to fall correctly you will be fine. Don't try to salvage a sketchy ride or things will get ugly and that's when injuries take place.

bigmtn

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2021, 04:46:37 PM »
I'm gonna give you completely different advice.  You already know how to ride a foil, and can kite, so you understand wind.  Learn to wing foil first.  It'll be the easiest to learn with your background.  You'll then be able to get on waves with the same setup you'd use when there isn't wind (sup first/ then prone sized board) and you can completely depower wing and ride the wave as if you were proning or suping.  Once you feel comfortable riding the foil in waves, then just go learn how to paddle to catch them. 

As far as prone or sup, I'd choose the one that most interests you, and start with that.  They aren't exactly interchangeable skills. 

surfcowboy

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2021, 10:22:57 PM »
Bigmtn called it. Wing first.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2021, 03:04:12 AM »
Winging is a good idea because there's definitely a difference between the power and volume with kitefoiling to SUP. However, that's just more gear and more time before you get into SUP or prone, and less time kiting (if you really enjoy kiting). Which I still will take a session on a strapless surfboard over a foil any day of the week with a kite if the conditions are right.

I started on knee high jibberish waves, wear whatever safety equipment you feel comfortable with, but if you are in smaller non-critical, non-breaking waves I'm not sure gearing up for football is really needed. The foil isn't something to be careless around, but if you have kited, you pretty much know how to get away from it. As soon as you start to lose it.......bail......it's pretty straightforward.

Also - get a good leash I like the Dakine floating leash.

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jondrums

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2021, 04:04:25 PM »
Such an interesting topic and lots of good advice here already

Don't expect to learn this fast.  Don't forget how much time it took you to learn kiting - all that time flying a kite on the shore and bodydragging and walk-of-shaming.  It'll be like that again.  Make a commitment to yourself that you'll go out into the waves 12 times before giving up.  You WILL have several very frustrating multi-hour long sessions with nothing but failures.  You need to push through this knowing that it will come with time.  I didn't follow anyone's advise to learn behind a boat, take a lesson, etc.  It took me 10 sessions before I foiled at all.  It took me 30 sessions before I felt like I had any sort of control.    From there you will progress really fast and the progression will never end (after 4 years and many hundreds of sessions I'm still learning every day).  You don't need a lesson if you are willing to push through frustration.

Hwy1north

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Re: Starting with SUPfoiling or prone?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2021, 10:31:56 AM »
I was up and foiling my first day with a 6'6" Kalama sup and Takuma 1600 LOL.  The waves were easy sliders and no one around.  I am a very experienced surfer and a good sup'er.  I landed really hard on the foil.  The worst was supermaning from the top of the wave and the top of the foil onto the flats and feeling like someone took a baseball bat to my ribs just from the water impact.  An impact vest and helmet are strongly recommended for anyone learning to foil, especially with waves.  I hated the oar being yet another potential impact weapon so I switched to prone.  The smaller board and foil made me feel safer, and is much more fun when it all goes right.  Sup foiling is way easier, though.

IMO, Winging is complimentry to wave foil riding if you spend a lot of time pumping the foil.  I think my wave foiling has helped my winging more than my winging has helped my wave foiling- with the exception of extending my flat water pumping ability.  You can be an expert snowboarder, windsurf wave rider, kitesurfer, wakeboarder and so on, but if you've never caught a wave with your own power and not had something to hold onto, then either sup or prone is a challenge enough without a foil!  (jondrums-way to keep at it!)


 


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