Author Topic: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA  (Read 1067 times)

sharksupper

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Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« on: July 23, 2021, 01:26:15 PM »
I've been riding the Lift 120HA for a while now and liking it a lot.  Originally I wanted to go fast 30mph+ and was initially disappointed that it topped out where my Gofoil GL140 did... about 28mph or so going at it 98% fear factor.  I'm sure you could eek out 30mph if you were willing to die for the title.  :)  However, the 120HA has an incredible glide ratio, especially at speed.  I can pretty much do a 360 jibe or tack with no wing power at all, given enough initial speed.

Enter the Lift Surf 60 v2, half the area, less aspect, but still respectable.  I'm hoping for 30mph+ now, but we'll see... if I can even get it flying on a 75L board!  Take off speed of the 120HA is about 8-9mph board speed, but once flying slows down nicely to 5mph without stalling, but skittish for sure.  I'm thinking the Surf 60 is going to be probably double that, should be a good little challenge to get going!  I'll report how it goes... for anyone that cares about going fast on none race foils (Mikes Lab/F4/etc).

Pics show 120HA next to the Surf 60 with the Glide 32 and 25 tails... one has a 3" fuse extension (helps mellow out the pitch stability at speed)Ö also shows size compared to Gofoil Kai set and my hand!  lol

Here is a quick vid of how the 120HA rides...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27oa5ra-Oxg    (no speed runs here, wind was too light)

VB_Foil

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Re: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2021, 05:52:28 PM »
Smooth riding! Showcasing the HA120 in all its glory. I hadnít seen anyone ride it in lighter flat water conditions, so thanks for sharing.

The 60 is only 390 cm^2!  Ha120 is 775 cm^2 I just found a deal on an Armstrong 625 in my quest to keep up with my windfoiling buddies.

Keep us posted how it goes!!!
Iím a 5í9Ē 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4í5Ē 34L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
  
  

Foils: Armstrong HS625, HS850, HA725, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HA1325
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

(Excessive, I know)

sharksupper

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Re: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2021, 11:27:01 PM »
Ok, drove down and had a late session in Marina Bay in the SF Bay Area.  Very short runs due to geography of the site and a bit choppier than my super flat speed site, but managed to hit about 29mph.  https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/7178622502

This thing was pretty tough to get flying, probably comes up initially around 13-14mph board speed and then isn't really on step until 15-20mph.  It doesn't pump well and you can hyper stall it if you're not fast enough and turn too hard.  I was not completely satisfied with the balance, so I need to play with some settings and try the Glide 25 rear wing.  The Glide 32 pretty big looking compared to the Surf 60 front!  Way too big I think.  With the smaller rear wing, flat water, and my 4.0 vs 6.0 (today) I can see low 30's coming without too much trouble.  I can tell you this front wing is no where near the efficiency of the 120HA.  If you don't take your jibe at a pretty brisk speed and keep it fast, you ain't going to make it.  I finally managed one tack, but it was pretty tough.... my 6.0 is a draggy bastard though, no doubt with a smaller slippery wing it will be easier.  I'm not sure this would be a daily driver foil, maybe just set aside for going fast on big flat days, ideal conditions.  I'll be testing again tomorrow...

surfcowboy

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Re: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2021, 09:02:30 AM »
Shark, thx for this. Iím not looking to go super fast but itís great to hear the stall speeds of foils.

Iím learning to jibe and have moved to a smaller Gong 1550 (still giant by your standards) and am trying to get a feel for how much speed to carry into jibes. Do you have an estimate of how fast your entering the turn? Thatís something I need to get comfortable with. I think Iím scrubbing too much speed and need to just go nose down and push through.

Sorry to hijack but the various speed states of foils is something we donít get specific data on very much. Watching this process closely.

sharksupper

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Re: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2021, 10:02:03 AM »
Hey brother!  No worries.  I've found that it's the helping each other out and growing together that makes these sports fun!  ;D  I've taught and am currently teaching several people.

I can't say my advice is "right" or even the best way, it's just how I came to do things naturally.  My background is that I learned to surf foil a few years ago on a standup board.  I also windsurfed for 30years.  Both involve quite a bit of speed in the turns, so I was already used to going fast, mentally (it's kind of scary going fast!).  I do recommend as you get comfortable with foiling to push the speeds (in a straight line) and see what the foil will do and get used to a bit of speed and staying in control at speed.  The fact is the more speed you carry though the jibe (without blowing up that is!) the easier you're going to make the jibe flying.  First thing is first though, I learned to ride "toe side" or "switch foot" first, off the foil, then on the foil.  After that, the jibes came much easier.  You will either be jibing and ending up switch foot, or starting switch foot and ending up in your regular stance.  Yes, there are a few people who switch their feet and I have a few friends who keep trying to learn to jibe by changing feet in the middle of the jibe, I don't recommend this!  it upsets the board/foil too much usually.  The other thing I see people doing is fiddling with the wing during the turn and then forgetting to fly the foil and spitting out the board.  With enough speed, you can just about make a whole jibe without ever touching the wing!  I tell people "fly the foil first".  Try to just make the 180 degree carve on the foil, even if you have to gently bring it back down to the water at the end... vs trying to power up with the wing and distracting yourself too much to remember to keep the foil in control.  After you have built the muscle memory to control the foil through that turn, you can then add powering up the wing and even switching the feet if that's your path (I don't personally).  Anyway, hard to teach by typing, really need to see where you're at in person and make personal advice, but the above is generally what I've been giving to my friends learning.

As for what speed you should go... each foil is different, so I can't say... Whatever speed you can start trying to carve the turn with without blowing up is the right speed for you.  See how far you can just glide though a turn without kicking out the board.  You might only make it 45 degrees around at first, then 90, eventually near 180.  Let the wing stay neutral and out of the way as you do this.  Plan on just gliding down to the water in control at the end... you will feel the foil run out of energy/lift and know it's time to come down gently for a landing.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 10:12:05 AM by sharksupper »

burchas

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Re: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2021, 07:28:04 PM »
Impressive sharksupper! The ease in which you get up on this wing in these conditions is disturbing...(my sleep that is :D)
Since you own both GoFoil and Lift and you're teaching as well, which system in your opinion will help progression easier/faster.
in progress...

sharksupper

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Re: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2021, 08:48:32 PM »
Impressive sharksupper! The ease in which you get up on this wing in these conditions is disturbing...(my sleep that is :D)
Since you own both GoFoil and Lift and you're teaching as well, which system in your opinion will help progression easier/faster.

The GoFoils are great to learn on.  I have the Kai, IWA, M200/Maliko, GL210, and GL140.  Absolute beginners I put on the M200, fantastic all around foil.  When I was surfing the M200 I would hit 20-21mph on big wave drop ins!  The GoFoils have a trait of being very front foot loaded as they speed up, whereas the Lift foils are very neutral in pitch, even at speed they don't lift like crazy like the GoFoils.  Nothing better or worse about that, just something to know.  I really loved my GL140 for winging.  the Lift 120HA is a whole different thing, a bit harder to get flying and touchier on the handling, but the glide is really good, maybe twice as good as the GL140 on my thumb in the air.  If you already have GoFoil, they have plenty of good wings to progress on, no need to switch.  If you already jibe and tack in both directions and feel the GL series is limiting you, the Lift 120HA might be an option.  So many foils out there!!!!
Hope that helps!

sharksupper

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Re: Lift Surf 60 v2 vs 120HA
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2021, 09:00:31 PM »
Tested again today, put on the Glide 25 tail, very powered up 5.0.  Water had 2ft chop, so speeds were hard to attain, topped out at 29mph again.  https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/7183805376

I'm going to push the Surf 60 to 30mph as a goal, but beyond that, it's just not a relaxing foil to ride, it needs to be fully powered at all times to keep flying, so no resting at all flying this puppy, you wear out quickly.

Back to the 120HA tomorrow but will try the Glide 25 tail.

 


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