Author Topic: Melted it. I'm an idiot.  (Read 1285 times)

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« on: July 20, 2021, 04:35:50 AM »
First - I'm an idiot for not being careful. Tripped/fell on my Joe Bark unlimited up on shore - and shattered the fin mount. I was pretty unhappy with myself - but I figured this was within my normal "figure it out" skill set. I also realized - this had been cracked awhile- a long time - it was REALLY wet in the foam when I cut out the mount. Did some reading - and I knew of course not to leave it in the direct HOT SUN (yeah I did say I am an idiot tho....). Summer is usually pretty cool here in Alaska - I left it outside, covered by a clear plastic to keep out the rain showers. The paper towels stuffed in the cavity were wet the first day but mostly I could just feel dampness in the foam after that. Next morning - I meant to pull a tarp over it - but got called out for work and didn't come out for hours. Well  - that wasn't good to see.

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2021, 04:42:32 AM »
I brought it over to local guy who makes custom carbon fiber canoes using a foam-strip technique that he lays carbon over, inside an out. He makes a sturdy canoe at about 40lbs that is really pretty - I need to try it out sometime - I've always been exposed to bad canoes - and hated 'em. He gave some advice - but isn't a board shaper/repair shop - this was on me to figure out and he says he will be happy to help. Plus, he has a real job :D

so - I decided I had to just go at it and see what was under the damaged bottom. It would have to come off. Plus - it was distorting the shape of the hull. Ben/the canoe guy said there is a "fiberglass bondo" that could smooth out the bottom then lay more carbon on top - but it looked to me that the hull was pulled down towards flat - the perfect curve would be screwed up.

I got out tape, my cordless grinder - it was at least fast to cut this off..... Ooh boy not good in there. The nose was extra bad, with melted foam up under one side. EDIT: Also - the broken fin mount - was worse than I had thought  - look at the BIG chunk of loose foam on the tail. Pics of the small cut I had made prior to melting my pride and joy ....


« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 04:53:44 AM by deepmud »

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4387
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2021, 04:58:20 AM »
Instead of adding weight with filler, consider shaping it down. Then fill any really bad spots with expanding foam.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 05:00:11 AM by Dwight (DW) »

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2021, 05:01:57 AM »
Ben/Canoe guy asked me if I could get "stations" for the hull - measured spots that could be printed out to duplicate the shape. It's how he makes his canoes. I have heard Joe Bark is pretty cool - but I don't know about "go ahead and copy my shape" cool. It did occur to me - not ever foot of foam was screwed up. I think I could get "stations" out of most of the remainder and fake the rest. I'm actually pretty good with my hands. So - I did some cutting - then made a hot wire (a hot mess of a hot wire :D but it worked - had to dig up a resistor (fog light) to keep from instant melting the wires (mostly worked)). You can really see where I went from hacking at it with a chef knife to smoothly cutting with hot wire.

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2021, 05:03:44 AM »
Instead of adding weight with filler, consider shaping it down. Then fill any really bad spots with expanding foam.

I think you mean the "bondo" stuff? Yeah I agree - I couldn't see that working - I'd be REALLY unhappy.  More pics coming. I did use some expanding foam - man it sucks to sand that stuff :D

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2021, 05:08:09 AM »
So - with a series of flat areas and "stations" between - I put pink version blue-foam blocks down. It's what is available local -and it sands well.


deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2021, 05:16:24 AM »
started cutting the blocks next day - the 12v jumper box was charged properly and I was smoking the stupid cutter over and over - added the fog light -it needed both wired in parallel to get the amps a bit higher :D - and started cutting. When I got sort of close - out came the belt sander. Fun fact - you run the sander very long and it gets hot - melts the foam and glues your sander and it smokes itself. Nice. I'm an idiot. I did already have 2 of them so I was MUCH more careful with number 2 sander and made a hand sander out of the cut belt from the broken one - this was pretty useful - a 15" flat 50 grit sander works fast even by hand.

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2021, 05:19:04 AM »
duplicate post - oops
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 05:28:49 AM by deepmud »

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2021, 05:27:19 AM »
So - now I'm trying to get the last bits/edges smoother - and I tried Gorilla Glue - nope - that just foams up and turns into hard-to-sand foam-crap  - I think I'll end up cutting more away than it fills in :( .

Mix epoxy with the piles of pink-foam powder I'm making? Or go bug the canoe guy and see what he has on hand?  Or - cut away the remaining original foam and fill with new? This will sand easier but I will lose my "stations" - I do think it's very close to what it needs to be so I could do that at this point.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 05:29:26 AM by deepmud »

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • View Profile
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2021, 05:27:41 AM »
Wow.  Thatís a lotta love ❤️

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2021, 05:34:51 AM »
Wow.  Thatís a lotta love ❤️

I really REALLY like this board - and I can't just go get another one. I would get a loan for new one if I had to - it's really fantastic for ME. I was almost about to take it out on the ocean finally - use it like a sea kayak to cruise Resurrection Bay with the sea lions :D but I borked it just when I was going to go finally. Coming from a sea kayak background - this is what I wanted to have as a sup all along, I just didn't know it till I was on it. My dream version would be built strip-foam and hollow - I'd pack gear in it and go for mulit-day trips out on the coast. Maybe a bit lower COG too :D I notice Karl Kruger's new one has deep wells for the feet.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
    • View Profile
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2021, 08:09:36 PM »
Man thatís a hard way to learn to shape but you are going to have to build a board now. Itís so much easier than what you are doing. You are a board builder now, like it or not.

You should be proud of this repair.

sflinux

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2021, 12:34:42 PM »
Good luck with the repair, thanks for sharing. 
I have an idiot story.  I had a board that was nose-heavy.  I cut holes to air dry but was still nose-heavy.  I poured in some diethyl ether thinking it would help dry the board out faster.  The board started to vent gas.  Turns out the diethyl ether dissolved the foam (like tetrahydrofuran).  I ended up cutting an access hole in the top of the board, to have access to build the foam back up.  The board is no longer nose-heavy. It was a learning process, but that board is still one of my favorite boards, no regrets.
Another idiot story, I have a sup bag with a reflective side (radiant barrier).  I put a (black bottom) raft on top of the bag (shiny side facing up) thinking it would help keep the board bag cool.  Turns out the sun reflected off the bag onto the bottom of the raft and melted the bottom of the raft.  Now I just cover that reflective bag with towels.
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"

deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2021, 01:17:17 PM »
Man thatís a hard way to learn to shape but you are going to have to build a board now. Itís so much easier than what you are doing. You are a board builder now, like it or not.

You should be proud of this repair.
kind words - thanks :D  I do have a dream of trying some Aleut baidarka stuff on a hull :D They must have been masters of the sea - there were descriptions from the Russians of kayaks passing them even under full sail - I would assume this would be downwinding and their hulls were designed to take advantage.

Questions if anyone has time:

1 Do I need to cut away the last bits of original foam and make the bottom all "new" - or is the microspheres/epoxy "bondo" enough at this point? It won't be very thick except for a couple of holes it would drain into.

2 Looks like from sanding down some distorted bumps that this is a one-layer carbon fiber board - my canoe-building friend lays up 2 layers  - but his boats are more likely to be in rivers. I was already thinking an extra keel strip to reenforce nose and stern - but should I go edge to edge (going for about 2 inches of overlap  - partly cause I will have some thin spots where I cleaned up distorted sections/flattened out bumps).

3. What about gelcoat? I know it's heavier - but I would be less likely to suffer addtional heat failures if I coat the bottom - and I plan to be using this like a kayak more, to go on multi-day trips on the ocean with some beach landings. I haven't landed a paddleboard on a rocky beach yet - I used to "crash" my Sea Otter to get as far up as possible to allow for a "dry" exit - an advantage to SUP is I can just hop off in knee deep water. But the Seat Otter at over 40 years old is just needing a new gel coat and it's ready to keep pounding.  Color: White? Keep it simple? I figure it has to be bright/heat reflective color - no fancy Orca-like patterns or it will risk new heat damage someday. Yellow? eh... I dunno. Good for SAR (Search And Rescue) ? :D





deepmud

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Melted it. I'm an idiot.
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2021, 01:21:03 PM »
Good luck with the repair, thanks for sharing. 
I have an idiot story.  I had a board that was nose-heavy.  I cut holes to air dry but was still nose-heavy.  I poured in some diethyl ether thinking it would help dry the board out faster.  The board started to vent gas.  Turns out the diethyl ether dissolved the foam (like tetrahydrofuran).  I ended up cutting an access hole in the top of the board, to have access to build the foam back up.  The board is no longer nose-heavy. It was a learning process, but that board is still one of my favorite boards, no regrets.
Another idiot story, I have a sup bag with a reflective side (radiant barrier).  I put a (black bottom) raft on top of the bag (shiny side facing up) thinking it would help keep the board bag cool.  Turns out the sun reflected off the bag onto the bottom of the raft and melted the bottom of the raft.  Now I just cover that reflective bag with towels.

Oh heck - you know - I considered trying to pour in alchohol in the failed fin box and apply suction at the vent or a crack I found up by the nose - but I don't know it would help to displace the water or just make it worse. And then I melted it :( . I'm hoping to bring it back to life in the next couple weeks. Crossing my fingers I have time, Ben the canoe-building guy has time.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2021, SimplePortal