Author Topic: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping  (Read 7866 times)

winged surfer

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« on: July 10, 2021, 12:07:02 PM »
Hello foilers, I’m trying to improve my pumping technique but It still did not click.
Please have a look on these 2 shorts videos.
What mistakes you think I make?
From my point of view it looks like I just pump with the rear leg (the front leg doesn’t bend as much as the front - how can I do that?)
Also I think when I pump I should move my all body more forward.
Is my pumping cadence too slow in your opinion? I’m riding the 1125 HA
I really appreciate any little help from you!
Thank you!!!

https://youtu.be/MSug3glFJAM

https://youtu.be/JWJcK76k24U


VB_Foil

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
    • View Profile
    • @foilgraham Insta
    • Email
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2021, 07:13:30 PM »
Not looking too bad! Which fuse/tail/shim/mast placement are you running?  I’m still dialing in all that with the 1125. She’s a fickle beast but the rewards are plentiful once dialed. New FG board has felt amazing for me the last three sessions in flat water. Less skateboard manual pumping feeling and more all terrain bite feeling.
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4’5” 34L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
  
  

Foils: Armstrong HA525, HS625, HA725, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HA1325
Wings: BRM 2M & 3M, FreeWing Nitro 4M, OR 5M & 7M Glide

daswusup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2021, 07:36:40 PM »
1st video you seem to be out in front of wave too far. 2nd looks better. I think you need to carve on the face to stay on the wave more and less pumping out in front of it. Nice conditions!

winged surfer

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2021, 12:49:27 AM »
Thank you Graham, i’m riding the 1125 with 60 a+ fuse, no shim, 82 mast and 200 flying V tail. I’m also waiting for my new 60L FG armstrong board :)

Good point Daswusup, i agree i’m too in front of the wave, when i’m more up i definetely feel more anergy and push. Carving is something i’m trying to do but everytime i do i manage to loose speed and energy, after pumping that will be my second goal.

Thanks for your answers

Hdip

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2021, 02:53:46 PM »
In the 2nd video your cadence is to fast if anything. You're not giving the board time to rise before you're pushing it back down.

Overall it looks good to me. It could use more power on the down stroke, but that just comes with time.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2021, 04:06:38 PM »
I suck at pumping, but I've studied it to a stupid degree trying to get better. You are definitely pumping with your back foot only. You lift your front foot and then push down mostly with your rear foot. I can't see how that does much at all, in fact, I'm not really sure how you can do that. When you see a pumpmeister like Kane do it, it's all front foot. I think you have most of your weight on your back foot, and you just unweight the front completely to make the nose come up. I'm not sure how you can correct that. Perhaps get a more balanced stance and concentrate on pushing down with the front foot. It's the downward stroke of the front wing done with a negative AOA that generates most of the forward motion. Your board, and by extension, probably your wing, is flat at most and probably slightly positive for most of the stroke.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2021, 04:38:02 PM »
looks like you're doing fine!  A tip that will help you - really work on riding as high on the mast as possible.  Just before you breach.  Drag goes way down and pumping gets so much easier.  Its like a revelation once you get that feel.

winged surfer

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2021, 07:04:38 AM »
Pono,
i actually have the opposite feeling: that i'm just pumping with the front foot, and as a result of this the nose of the board is moving up and down a lot. When i see the others pumping their board move more evenly and even the legs are not bending that much.
Thanks for the support, i'll try to put everything together next session.
and also i will try only behind the boat to focus on the rithm.
i also did not get what is exactly that generate the forward motion, what's the OAO?
thanks

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2021, 08:55:36 PM »
AOA is angle of attack. The beginning pumpers that I see getting the most speed out of their pumping simply push up and down equally, front and back boot. Like they are just jumping a bit. I think they get the feel of pumping from what the wing does rather than trying to make the wing move a certain way.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Fishman

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 519
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2021, 10:24:02 AM »
"Wake thief" on you tube has looked at pumping pretty closely.

Quick tips video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R48Ouav05HI

Longer closer look video.
If you look at min 5:01 you see the step by step break down. I think step 3 of the float, the quick "flick" up, is very important   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XeskRF4jEA
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 10:41:37 AM by Fishman »
SupSurfMachine 9'9" longboard
SupSurfMachine  8'2" funboard

Carpediem

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2021, 10:47:58 AM »
Hey winged surfer, check your messages  8)
Me: 75kg
Board: Indiana 74l
Wings: Swing V2 5m, Takoon 4m
Foils: Gong Veloce L

liv2surf

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2021, 06:59:47 PM »
#Following

Great thread, great comments. I am working on the same challenge of not losing energy of wave. I see others having more success all around me (they don't seem to be pumping). I want to harness more wave energy (ideally without pumping).

I really liked the comment about getting the foil higher in water (I guess this has to do with decreasing drag of mast and/or getting foil wings nearer wave energy). When I do this I notice it has a huge benefit for wave riding. I notice it as more speed and glide. So I think my problem is not enough speed and glide.

I also liked the comment about cutting back to stay on the face of the wave (and not get out in front of the wave). When I am able to do this it helps. I am better turning to toeside on my strong side (left foot forward), than riding toeside with right foot forward.

I will also try to incorporate the comments & video about pumping technique.
5'6 Quatro Wingdrifter Pro 105L; Cabrinha Mantis 3.1m, 4m, 5m and 6m; Axis 1000 (1150, 1020); Project Cedrus 91 cm carbon mast (68 cm fuse, 440/5000 rear); 9'6" CRUZ Surf foil SUP (152L); Chinook Thrust 92 Paddle -- fixed 78" length; 'prone' longboards on the rack, kites in the garage.

Califoilia

  • Axis Demo Rep
  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1510
  • San Clemente
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2021, 08:30:59 AM »
Pono,
i actually have the opposite feeling: that i'm just pumping with the front foot, and as a result of this the nose of the board is moving up and down a lot. When i see the others pumping their board move more evenly and even the legs are not bending that much.
Thanks for the support, i'll try to put everything together next session.
and also i will try only behind the boat to focus on the rithm.
i also did not get what is exactly that generate the forward motion, what's the OAO?
thanks
I see more front foot as well, and my only suggestion is that the pushdown of the board is more of a pushup of the body. IOWs, you're more or less unweighting the board in order to let the wing(s) do their job to fly and lift.

This is why when you say, "When i see the others pumping their board move more evenly and even the legs are not bending that much", that's because they're straightening their legs to unweight the board, rather than trying to push the board down.

When I'm successful at pumping (I still manage to not follow my own advise to myself at times), it's when I slow things down, think about unweighting, and letting the foil lift fully and let it glide...rather than working too hard, over pumping, and pushing the board down instead of getting the hell off of it.

I actually find that when I'm doing it correctly I'm really not tired at the end of the pumping, but when I screw things up, I'm literally beat, even though I've not traveled nearly as far as when my timing and technique is correct. Still a work in progress though, and need to become more consistent...less is really more I've come to find out.
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4929
    • View Profile
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2021, 07:59:26 AM »
One training tip, I got behind a boat a couple of times after a year of weekend foiling and it helped a ton. You can feel the foil and if you mess up the rope just goes tight again. Super helpful learning to pump.
You can emulate the boat by pumping while powered up with the wing too.

Califoilia’s explanation works for me. Let it rise. And that’s what Pono is saying about “hopping” to start though that’s not the long term answer/technique imho.

Oh and the forward motion is from the glide. If you ever learn to dock start just step into the foil with barely any forward motion and the foil will glide forward like an airplane. All you’re doing pumping is letting it fly up and gliding down. “Pumping” is just heightening the effect.

My friends and I are adding the boat as an option to learn more about foils. Oh, and it’s a 10’ board with a 20hp motor lol, nothing fancy.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 08:01:17 AM by surfcowboy »

radair

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2021, 12:22:28 AM »
Boat time is definitely a great way to improve pumping skills. It seems like the really good pumpers are using a two-footed pump, not porpoising. Check out this pump master’s video:
https://youtu.be/LXE6MhwyC3c

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal