Straight tail Wingfoil board opinions

[PonoBill]

This is the napkin sketch I sent Mark Raaphorst for my new board. I figure the shaping will take about an hour, tops.

[pafoil]

Isn't that Flycat a SUP foilboard for downwinding? Long boxes give more adjustment but that adds alot of weight. Flycat boards are awesome.

Yes, it's for downwind/sup paddle. But I learnt a few things with these long rails/ front positions.
Danny is a master. Shape/details matter!

[fumaster]

Question, are the new Kalama E3 considered a straight tail board?
https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/New-Kalama-Performance-E3

[burchas]

This picture shows it better...

[Dontsink]

This is the napkin sketch I sent Mark Raaphorst for my new board. I figure the shaping will take about an hour, tops.

Looks pretty much like what i would order.
I would add rails softer/slight bevel in the front third transitioning to harder  towards middle and rear.
And a bit of reverse bevel at the tail to make the board sit flat with a very centered foot position.

[surfcowboy]

I’d say no on that Kalama. Straight tail means a 90° angle from bottom to tail, and deck to tail. No bevel.

Pono and I have the same idea. Straight means you’re basically riding a rectangular block of foam a few inches thick. No bevel, nothing on the sides, flat bottom. Maybe a little bevel or rocker on the nose. As I’ve said, I’ve been super tempted to put boxes in, cut a 45° bevel in the nose and glass a 5” thick sheet of EPS.

A lot of great shapers and riders are calling BS on shaped foil boards. I’m of that mind. My foil lifts long before my board could ever plane.

[ninja tuna]

Bill's design looks really sweet, cant wait to see it and how it performs,

The PBmodel

[burchas]

A lot of great shapers and riders are calling BS on shaped foil boards. I’m of that mind. My foil lifts long before my board could ever plane.

Me think so too but then I see this:

[surfcowboy]

Ah, Burchas, yes, I should clarify, I meant wing boards. Downwind boards and SUP foils still could benefit. Especially when doing stuff like that. But a wing is just a jet ski dragging us at takeoff. And to those who say wing boards are “sticky” your technique is funky I think. When I’m powered up no little touchdowns are bringing me off foil it takes a major screw up. Besides that what tall masts are for. (Prone foil surfing, sure touchdowns will take you out, so maybe you need some magic.)

I learned a crazy lesson using a giant foil with a sinker board behind a boat. I was flying the foil underwater before the board planed. I had no time to get myself “set” on the board on the water. The foil literally flew from 5 feet under to where I was out of the water on foil in one motion. The only way I could get my board to plane is to use a tiny foil and take off super slow. The “on the water” halfway point was nonexistent with the big boy. (Yes this was hilarious to watch.)

[ninja tuna]

I love comments sometimes;

from the above Riggs video

"As a foiler, I cannot over-emphasise the contrast between how simple this looks, and what it actually feels like to attempt it yourself. You might as well flap your arms and expect to fly."

[PonoBill]

A. Jeremy. Not human.
B. pumping off flatwater with a paddle. Not doing that, never will be unless reincarnation turns out to really be a thing.
3. If I was reincarnated I'd probably come back as a walrus.

[Dwight (DW)]

A lot of great shapers and riders are calling BS on shaped foil boards. I’m of that mind. My foil lifts long before my board could ever plane.

Me think so too but then I see this:

You’re not wrong. Explained here. I ride small fast foils, even in light wind today.



And now I SUP a straight tail. It feels like a rocket launch catching waves. Ideal for the Axis HPS fast foils. Straight tail combined with HPS….5’1 paddles like a 6 footer.



Doing this is easier than magically being young again.

[juandesooka]

Pono and I have the same idea. Straight means you’re basically riding a rectangular block of foam a few inches thick. No bevel, nothing on the sides, flat bottom. Maybe a little bevel or rocker on the nose. As I’ve said, I’ve been super tempted to put boxes in, cut a 45° bevel in the nose and glass a 5” thick sheet of EPS.
A lot of great shapers and riders are calling BS on shaped foil boards. I’m of that mind. My foil lifts long before my board could ever plane.

I like your style surfcowboy.  When everyone is frothing over micro details, I find it pushed me to become the contrarian. This started in early days of kite foiling and kiting in general...where the board design makes just slightly above 0% difference.  As seen by the videos of riders on cafeteria trays or a chunk of 2x10 or pool toys.  I think wing foiling is slightly more technical ... but not much. I am enjoying the current trend towards almost no shaping, "simple clean lines". 

[Solent Foiler]

... When I’m powered up no little touchdowns are bringing me off foil it takes a major screw up. Besides that what tall masts are for. (Prone foil surfing, sure touchdowns will take you out, so maybe you need some magic.)...

I'm sympathetic to the straight tail philosophy but I do think it places priority on one aspect of winging, and that's the take off.

But there are some winging activities where the board can come into contact with the water accidentally where board shape does impact outcome. I think even you recognise this, with your concession to prone foilers needing some board shaped assistance.

For example: cranking upwind with the board levered to windward in wind against tide conditions, laying down aggressive carves where the board has to get close to the water to prevent foil ventilation, landing jumps.

On the longer mast point, I  have used a 100 mast a lot, and a mast that long is not without compromise. I think I prefer using the 85 as a daily driver.

Personally I'd be keen to have a straight tail in my quiver for marginal conditions especially if it means I can use a smaller 'big' foil, but once the breeze is above a solid 13+ knots and starting my Lethal and 1100 cm2 foil is doable, I'd choose to be on that because the touch down performance is more important than the take off to me as the breeze builds.

Having said that, Patrice says he developed the Lethal's tail to allow water to flow around it and off without turbulence/drag, so facilitating take off. A very different way to solving the same problem, but I do like the logic of the straight tail.

Another thought struck me - would an inflatable be considered a straight tail? With the rail release strips, their rails are quite boxy....

[PonoBill]

You don't really need to change any other aspect of a design to have a straight tail--it's basically just the tail. I've been experimenting with a board I already own, that has some fairly extreme design elements--thin, pulled-in nose, tucked rails, lots of nose and tail rocker, etc. I'm glueing blue foam to the tail and slicing it off with hot wire tools--one that slides along the table to give a flat, no rocker tail, the other a C-shape that I run along templates to shape the profile of the tail--it was originally pulled in a lot. So far, the winner in all the odd designs I've tried (stepped, bevel, rounded bevel, straight with less pull in, swallow) is a square box, flat from the start of the rocker, with straight rails like the napkin drawing. The difference in balance and liftoff is HUGE. It comes off the water like it's got a prop. It literally feels powered. If I come off foil and touch down in the middle of a jibe it pops back up as soon as the wing starts to draw--no pumping, no flapping, just zoom, up. 

For everything else--banking hard, recovering from an over foiling slam down, hiking out upwind--no change. I thought the square back would hit when I hiked over. If it does I can't feel any effect.

I'm as shocked as anyone. This is really a revelation.