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Author Topic: Foil wing fiddling  (Read 4848 times)

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2021, 09:17:48 AM »
You probably wont believe me, but if you got the HPS-1050 youd become a jibing hero and never use the 1000 or 1150 again.

The 1150 is fine, if all you want to do is go straight and pump 2 for 1s. That is not you. The 1000 has an abrupt shutoff speed threshold that is poor by modern standards. The 1000 is a jibe hero machine, provided the wind is super solid.

The 1050 is a jibe hero machine with no negatives. Average skill required. Not a beginner foil. Beginners should go BSC-1060


cnski

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 04:36:03 PM »
I just got the 1050 and found it to be hella hard to get on foil at 245 lbs. The only Axis wings I've rode are the 1150 and 1300 and I weigh 245 lbs so that kind of explains it. I need to be very powered to get going. Need to spend more time on it before I pass too much judgement. Definately a higher gear than the 1150 and 1300 which is a blast.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2021, 04:41:03 AM »
A straight tail board changes everything with the HPS foils. They are so low in drag, they reach minimum foiling speed really easy with a straight tail.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2021, 09:19:04 AM »
I just heard from a buddy who is 64 225 lbs riding a straight tail with the HPS-980. He says the old style board feels like a sea anchor. He says he can ride smaller foils now.

Im starting to see more straight tails in production. There is the original 54 Sky board, then these.

https://shop.indiana-paddlesurf.com/foil-boards/wind-foil-boards.html

https://www.instagram.com/p/COcrPQOLwQd/?igshid=puwvhco7ynnr

Dontsink

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2021, 10:59:00 AM »
I have straightened the tails of my boards.
EVA foam routered to the exact angle and stuck with contact glue.
It works really good,first thing you notice is a substantial increase in stability in float mode,then much better glide.
With decent wind you just go up on foil smoother and earlier.
In marginal conditions requiring a big pump of the board to rise a bit on the mast it demands more back foot pressure but it also makes it a lot easier not to overdo the angle of attack and stall the foil,this is great for thinner,more advanced foil shapes.
I think it is just better,period.

Makes me wonder if big manufacturers do any actual R&D or they just copy what smaller shapers like Dwight are doing and put fancy names on it.

jondrums

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2021, 12:09:08 PM »
I think what you're talking about is the key difference between using a wave to accelerate up on foil and using a wing for propulsion.

Shapers spent a ton of time optimizing boards for catching waves and then transferred that over to winging.  We're finally starting to see the features diverge, which is awesome!

Dontsink

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2021, 01:12:25 PM »
Not sure about that...
My SUPfoil gets into waves earlier and easier with the foam straight tail.Paddles out quicker too.
Kane de Wilde is using straight tails too, i think for his downwind SUP he used a V straight tail because downwind requires a big pump to get into a small chop.

cnski

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2021, 07:36:04 AM »
I knew I should have made the tail of my board straight last year when it was being built but went with tail kick. I succumbed to the status quo of current foilboard design. We kept the rails hard with no bevel though. I have access to 2 new NJS boards and a Flyingdutchman to test, both with straight tails so there is hope for my 1050 yet.

Wave Chaser

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2021, 10:03:41 AM »
I have straightened the tails of my boards.
EVA foam routered to the exact angle and stuck with contact glue.
It works really good,first thing you notice is a substantial increase in stability in float mode,then much better glide.
With decent wind you just go up on foil smoother and earlier.
In marginal conditions requiring a big pump of the board to rise a bit on the mast it demands more back foot pressure but it also makes it a lot easier not to overdo the angle of attack and stall the foil,this is great for thinner,more advanced foil shapes.
I think it is just better,period.

Makes me wonder if big manufacturers do any actual R&D or they just copy what smaller shapers like Dwight are doing and put fancy names on it."



So I think I might give this a try.  My question is, given that my board is about 4" thick, should I use a 4" thick block of EVA foam (obviously cut into a triangle to fit the chopped tail of the board) and basically flatten the whole tail?  My concern is that this will change the sweet spot for the mast and I am already all the way back in the track.  Would it work just as well to use a 2" thick block?  I guess that at slow speed, a release edge that is too small could still allow water to wrap around (up) the tail and keep your speed down... :-\

Wave Chaser

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2021, 10:06:37 AM »
In other words, why not do something like the Slingshot Wingcraft V1, a hybrid that gives you the best of both tail designs?

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2021, 11:24:44 AM »
My question is, given that my board is about 4" thick, should I use a 4" thick block of EVA foam (obviously cut into a triangle to fit the chopped tail of the board) and basically flatten the whole tail?  My concern is that this will change the sweet spot for the mast and I am already all the way back in the track. 

It does change the sweet spot a lot. On my board, the tracks had to go back 2 inches.

Wave Chaser

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2021, 06:13:47 PM »
OK, so this brings up more questions for me:  How big does a release edge have to be in order for the water not to wrap and suck power?  I realize that at high speed, perhaps as little as 1/4" could work (like my 2005 underground kiteboard).  And at very low speed, and if the board is low in volume relative to the weight of the person, then even something as big as 2 inches could still wrap and suck power.  So, lots of variables...  But let's say that, in my case for example, I weigh 63kg and my wing board is 71l and has a chopped tail.  When I am pumping at sub plaining speeds, trying to fly my Axis 980 foil, how big does my release edge need to be?  This is an important question because if I only need a small one, then perhaps I can do this simple mod to my board without needing to adjust my mast placement (which is already maxed out to the rear of the mast track).  I ride strapless, so a little adjustment is no big deal.  But 2 inches is a lot.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2021, 06:26:37 PM »
A long while back I had done several variations on the tail bevel. Sharp release edge, rounded, angled. It was tough to detect much difference. It wasnt until I tried full straight to the back, that I went wow, big difference.


PonoBill

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2021, 09:35:04 PM »
What mechanism do you visualize that allows water that is already no longer in contact with the board to "suck power".
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dontsink

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Re: Foil wing fiddling
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2021, 12:41:31 AM »
OK, so this brings up more questions for me:  How big does a release edge have to be in order for the water not to wrap and suck power?  I realize that at high speed, perhaps as little as 1/4" could work (like my 2005 underground kiteboard).  And at very low speed, and if the board is low in volume relative to the weight of the person, then even something as big as 2 inches could still wrap and suck power.  So, lots of variables...  But let's say that, in my case for example, I weigh 63kg and my wing board is 71l and has a chopped tail.  When I am pumping at sub plaining speeds, trying to fly my Axis 980 foil, how big does my release edge need to be?  This is an important question because if I only need a small one, then perhaps I can do this simple mod to my board without needing to adjust my mast placement (which is already maxed out to the rear of the mast track).  I ride strapless, so a little adjustment is no big deal.  But 2 inches is a lot.

Not much...read this.
https://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=201&t=2408230

 


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