Advice needed

[SurfIC]

I've been Wingsurfing for the past 8 months almost every other day. I'm really comfortable on foil! I have 2 mid aspect foils 1450 (90% of the time) and 2000 (light wind). I surfed a little bit when I was younger and have sup surfer for the last 6 years. I want to Surf foil on my wing board which is 5'2 26" 85L. I'm 77kgs, if I got into it I would buy a smaller lower litre prone foil board which could also work as a sinker for wingsurfing. I don't want to sup foil as I like the smaller board and want smaller than my current board not bigger.. Lol.

When learning to pop up and foil surf in small waves.. 
1) do I use my big or small foil?
2) The pop up looks slightly slower and less critical than non foil surf. Any hints?
3) do you keep your feet through the centre line? When Winging my front foot is slightly offset.
4) my plan is to try and find a reform wave and take off on the white water, is this what you would suggest?
5) does a smaller sinker board take off as easy/more easy/less easy than my floaty wing board? A sinker won't have glide but it may get picked up and pushed more in white water?

Any general other tips would be awesome..
Thanks

[jondrums]

A nice big board will work great as long as it isn't big surf that you have to paddle out through.

1) I'd personally start with your small foil, you want minimal lift as you're learning to catch waves, otherwise it'll buck you off the back as you try to stand up.  Put it back in the boxes as well while learning
2) depends on the wave.  I don't think it is less critical, I think you need to be standing before you gather too much speed and certainly before the foil has fully engaged
3) I keep both feet centerline.  getting them right fore-aft is also super important, no time to adjust
4) sounds right for sure
5) No, I don't think so.  My experience is that the reason to ride a smaller board is so it disappears when you're in the air and the tradeoff is that it will be harder to catch a wave.   A poorly shaped big board can be worse than a well shaped small board.  But all things being equal you've got to be  better positioned and paddle harder on a smaller board.

[SurfIC]

Thanks for your help!!

[surfcowboy]

Jon got you rolling. I know two guys who do this. One of them is getting pretty good. He just doesn’t like carrying two boards.

[Hdip]

1) do I use my big or small foil?

It really depends on your waves. You can try the small foil pushed forward in the tracks. It'll be faster and more maneuverable. If the waves are over 2 feet then that's probably your best bet. Or you can try the big foil pushed back in the tracks. If it's tiny and here's the important part, if it's very mushy! then the big foil is probably better. The steeper the wave the smaller the foil. Even if it's 1 foot haha.
The big foil is probably slower and easier to control. It will most likely roll rail to rail slower so that should help you be more stable. If the waves are to big for it though, you'll just be fighting it. So hard to say.

2) The pop up looks slightly slower and less critical than non foil surf. Any hints?
 
The pop up surfing is much easier. More room for error. Easier to fix foot placement later. Popping up on foil in the beginning, especially if you have traction on your board, is tricky to make sure your feet land in the right place. People do it slower to make sure they're in balance as the foil is lifting and getting the timing right to make sure they don't let the board kickflip on them.

3) do you keep your feet through the centre line? When Winging my front foot is slightly offset.

I say yes, try to keep them on the center line to begin with, but most people end up with a front foot slightly off set. The wider the board the more margin for error you'd have I imagine.

4) my plan is to try and find a reform wave and take off on the white water, is this what you would suggest?
 
This is a good plan. Make sure it's the part of the wave where the white water is disappearing and the wave is going back to an unbroken swell. If it's white water top to bottom rolling to shore like a beach break, that's hard to stand up and ride in.

5) does a smaller sinker board take off as easy/more easy/less easy than my floaty wing board? A sinker won't have glide but it may get picked up and pushed more in white water?
 
Not really sure about that. The two boards I've ridden are 31 and 33 liters respectively.

Any general other tips would be awesome..
Thanks

[SurfIC]

Hdip - awesome thank you, much appreciated. I reckon I'll be OK once I've made it to my feet evan if my feet are not quite in the right place. I've spent 200 hours + on foil and can switch from natural to goofy on foil (after a gybe in winging) and been out in some fairly big seas. Its the lack of fire power in my arms for paddling, crap pop up technique and picking the right waves which I will find tricky. Learning is cool though..

[Hdip]

Understanding what the foil is going to do underneath your feet is the huge hurdle in the beginning. You should be able to move past that a bit faster since you know what it's doing already. Now you just have to figure out what it is you're specifically looking for in a catchable wave. Get out there and start falling!

[SurfIC]

Lol.. love a good

[jondrums]

Hdip - awesome thank you, much appreciated. I reckon I'll be OK once I've made it to my feet evan if my feet are not quite in the right place. I've spent 200 hours + on foil and can switch from natural to goofy on foil (after a gybe in winging) and been out in some fairly big seas. Its the lack of fire power in my arms for paddling, crap pop up technique and picking the right waves which I will find tricky. Learning is cool though..

OH!
you'll be fine then.  I wouldn't worry about which foil or which board.  For you its going to be all about finding the right wave and being in the right spot.  After that everything will be easy since you have so much time on foil.

[surfcowboy]

One thing I'll call out that Hdip couldn't be caught dead advocating. 

The Chicken Wing popup. Check out that Half-Life foil video on YouTube. He shows the old guy popup where you bring your back foot up to the traction pad while lying down. (I do this and the awesome Steamroller does as well.) Then you push up and your front foot lands and you can take off. You can take the drop mostly prone and hold the foil down til you are ready to go.

This removes the critical back foot placement issue. You still have to land your front foot but it's 50% easier. Ha!

I'm going to be in your position as I learn to prone this summer. Lots of time on foil (hours and miles!) but not popping up. I'll be watching this space. I'm going to start proning my wing board in tiny waves I think.

[halfwaythere]

+1 to this. The tripod take off is more controlled and that is the #1 priority. There's room for the classic scorpion pop up too, but the benefit from the tripod is consistent placement of the rear and then front foot. I use both, depends on the situation. Note: even rippers use the tripod especially with straps (for example: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CODl-i6D7Ha/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link).

Check out the comment thread from Eric Hoppe on the following YouTube video comment thread. He has the right perspective on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXBRf-NC-Ik&t=12s

I'm a winger and prone foiler. The most challenging part of prone is getting used to popping up on a wave... white water take offs make it way easier, but it will be intimidating at first. With more looks and practice it feels much more controlled and safer. I would say don't rush it. Try paddling in and if it doesn't feel right, no shame in backing off. After 10-30 waves or whatever works for you, you'll feel much more in control in this dynamic environment, and get sick of backing off, then it's time to go for it.

[SurfIC]

Thanks guys, is the Tripod the same as the Chicken wing? I couldn't find any video using Tripod surf pop as a search. I watched the chicken wing video and this makes alot of sense as you know at least the back foot will be in the correct place. I can't wait to give it a crack. I will report back as I reckon there will be a fair few Wing foilers crossing over.

[halfwaythere]

tripod and chicken wing are pretty much the same thing. doing it on foil board is a bit different because you can push up higher when placing your rear foot due to more lift/planing power from the foil.

tripod:
push your chest up off the board
two knees still touching
keeping the knee of your front leg on the board, place your rear foot
the tripod points are your hands on the board and the knee of your front foot
these three points serve as balancing and push off points to get your rear foot positioned
once you have your rear foot positioned and things feel steady, now move your front foot into position (from knee to foot)
make sure that your front foot moves far enough forward and keep those hands down to stabilize for a bit
stand up
make adjustments as needed

For a visual: see the 5 second mark of this video https://www.instagram.com/tv/CODl-i6D7Ha/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Expand video to full screen then slowly move the video scrubber back and forth to see the movement

[SurfIC]

Got it, I can see how this will work and funnily enough it's a very similar starting position to my Wingfoil starts.
Thanks again..

[surfcowboy]

Yeah, same thing. That half life video is the only one I know of that shows it. (New sport.) But yes, even some good foilers do it and especially strapped guys.