Author Topic: Winging in Waves ADVICE  (Read 1365 times)

Beasho

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Winging in Waves ADVICE
« on: April 13, 2021, 07:09:21 AM »
I have graduated from the Harbor to the Ocean.  35 sessions of experience.   

A month ago I went back to my favorite windsurfing spot and started to wing there.  The wind is typically 20 mph powered to fully powered 5.0.

Part of me thinks "Take your medicine and figure it out."  The other part realizes 'be humble a--holee . . . and ask for some advice.'  So here I am.

This weekend was big . . . no it was huge. I surf foiled in the morning and it was 12 feet @ 10 seconds.  But this is just average 'big' when surf foiling.  When I got to the wing sailing spot the channel closed out and I thought 'man that only happens when it is enormous.'  But I ignored it and went out anyways.  Turned out the buoys had picked up to 16 feet at 15 seconds.  WTF!

Regardless the size wasn't so much the issue as foot transitions and sailing with the wave.

I am goofy foot.  Wind blows Northwest so I am coming towards shore either:

1) Crack head stance - Toe Side - Goofy foot (comfortable)

2) Heel side sailing on port regular stance (Getting better)

Winging is MUCH, much slower than foil surfing at least at my stage.  The challenge comes when I am regular foot, uncomfortable, flying with the waves.  To stay with the wave energy requires pointing downwind and picking up moocho speed.  Regular stance I am just not comfortable flying fast.  Example 15 mph (fast) vs 23 mph (very fast). 

Then I realized Just Learn to Surf Regular stance.  I thought 'Why not just start foiling in regular stance until I am as good as goofy, or close enough, not to care?'

I would otherwise try to sail WAY, WAY upwind and then try to downwind with the wave goofy foot but I can't make any good upwind progress when I am toe side (Crack-Head stance).

Here is an example of my longest ride.  Staying in the Goofy stance for several minutes.  Not making ANY upwind progress, but this is better than I have been doing which was to just fade downwind.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 07:37:44 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2021, 07:19:57 AM »
Here is the speed profile from the same 'wave'.  Average = 10.7 mph.

I was riding the GoFoil GL210.  Interestingly my 5 HP boat does 10 mph and I don't think I could fly the GL210 behind the boat.  BUT with a wing overhead the foil flies nicely. 

1) Flying INTO the waves - No Problem. You have to figure out how to absorb the wave faces and not breach but keeping speed and flight is relatively manageable.

2) Flying PORT with the waves - Bigger Problem.  The waves are traveling at ~ 15 mph dead downwind.  I am flying on a reach @ 12 mph.  When the wave approaches you can fly downwind for a bit but then the wave passes under you and leaves you climbing the back of the wave on the verge of stall.  I start to point higher, pick up some power and move on (???).

With a windsurfer there was so much power and speed that you would just muscle through these sections.  Not so much at this stage with the Wing-Ding.   
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 07:33:03 AM by Beasho »

daswusup

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2021, 07:21:53 AM »
Perhaps you should spend more time riding "Crackhead Stance" instead of switching your feet. Toeside, wind powered waveriding in CA, AKA going left is pure bliss. Especially with a power source that can be 95% depowered. This is where the wing stands out from the other wind power tools. Its not just toeside, its the ability to carve freely from toe to heel that makes it fun.

PonoBill

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2021, 09:46:14 AM »
I'm afraid you're on your own, I haven't heard of anyone winging in waves of that size.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jondrums

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2021, 10:41:44 AM »
where is this?  don't recognize the map

PonoBill

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2021, 11:04:51 AM »
Given the wave size and that it's Beasho I'd guess a stone's throw from Mavericks.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Wingingtanuki

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2021, 12:31:12 PM »
I want nothing to do with 10ft @16s.  :o

Having said that, in the tiny conditions I'm learning in I can relate to the feeling of getting left behind by the wave, then stalling, dropping off the foil, and being unable to get out of the way. 

With a windsurf board you can just angle, sheet in and go.
With the wing and foil it's more like either being too low and stalling, being too high and breaching or being too angled and getting taco'd.

The local guys that are learning riding bigger waves seem to be kinda shoulder hopping onto the wave and staying further away from the lip on the top turns than they would if they were prone surfing or windsurfing. That sounds kinda lame, but they are getting better all the time, so more power to them.

With your big wave and prone foil surfing experience I would have thought it was just a matter of putting the wing in neutral and the rest is surfing, but what the hell do I know ?!?

Please give us some pointers when you get it figured out.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2021, 12:33:16 PM »
Obviously none of us have waves that big, but I can tell you how I handle wave riding.

Even though I can ride comfortable heel side, wrong foot forward, all day in flat water. I still do not ride waves that way. Once on the wave I want to ride, I stay in my natural stance and feel totally at home never switching my feet. I知 100% confident toe side surfing.

So I only ride wrong foot forward to rest my legs or beat upwind to the peak. I知 pretty sure most people do the same. All my buddies do it like I do.







Beasho

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 12:42:39 PM »
I want nothing to do with 10ft @16s.  :o . . . .
The local guys that are learning riding bigger waves seem to be kinda shoulder hopping onto the wave and staying further away from the lip on the top turns than they would if they were prone surfing or windsurfing. That sounds kinda lame, but they are getting better all the time, so more power to them. . . .

It was 16 feet @ 15 seconds - Much, Much Bigger BUT there was a channel and I wanted nothing to do with the TRUE breaking waves. 
Because there was a channel I didn't have to fight through shore break.  Then I was just winging in BIG outside swell.  Probably like doing a downwinder in Hawaii at that point. 

Windsurfers were going deeper and getting right up to the breaking face, which I used to do as a windsurfer, but I was totally content going back and forth in the channel and sneaking towards some shoulders. 

My reference to riding with the 'waves' above was going with the swell in the open ocean.  BUT I was avoiding doing Jibes on some of the swell because it was TOO big and I feared what would happen going 20+ mph downwind doing a high speed Tomahawk cartwheeling yard sale.

Once on the wave I want to ride, I stay in my natural stance and feel totally at home never switching my feet. I知 100% confident toe side surfing.

So I only ride wrong foot forward to rest my legs or beat upwind to the peak. I知 pretty sure most people do the same. All my buddies do it like I do.

DW: This was more like what I was trying to do.  I had the fleeting thought of just mastering regular foot surf foiling. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 01:00:15 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2021, 12:49:54 PM »
The breaking waves were probably this size.  Jeff Clark was out with me and he was going deeper than I was willing to go.  He also had the F-One STRIKE that just motored him upwind.  He is ~ 6 months ahead of my with his skill set. 

Something Jeff commented on was the desire for a smaller foil in the surf.  This makes sense since the speeds pick up from 12 - 14 mph when cruising vs. 18 - 24 mph if you are truly ripping down the line of a wave face. 

This guy's advice below is TOP NOTCH - Don't Fall!

https://magazine.wingsurfworld.com/issue-01/wave-wonder/
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 01:05:18 PM by Beasho »

bigmtn

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2021, 01:50:25 PM »
According to my phone, I hit 26mph in the waves the other day.  The problem then is keeping the foil down.  My current dilemma is riding a small enough foil to manage the bigger waves and higher speeds, yet still having enough lift to get up and stay up on foil when the wind gets light.

If the wind is offshore, you'll find the wind cranks up the face, but when you are in the trough there is no wind. Scary place to be when you're not on foil.  Here's a video I just saw of the nightmare I try to avoid every time I go out...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNmJbgUCMcx/

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2021, 03:01:44 PM »

DW: This was more like what I was trying to do.  I had the fleeting thought of just mastering regular foot surf foiling.

Yes, but where this plan falls down, is then you need to get comfortable toe side regular foot. You always want to be able to make cutbacks. That requires toe side regular foot skill. I can ride toe side either tack, but still only want to ride toe side on my good tack, because it can get sketchy real quick if the wave goes vertical.

jondrums

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2021, 04:16:03 PM »
what a nice privilege the pros have to not worry about gear if/when they fall.  Sure they are super talented and aren't falling much, but to know that if they did they can just ditch the gear.  It does cross my mind whether I'm about to have a $1000 session if I ruin something or worse should I get myself hurt.  In generally, I'd rather not have that risk hanging over my head on my sessions - I can have plenty of fun without the risk.

surfcowboy

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2021, 09:15:29 PM »
Jon, yeah, if you surf these things there will be collateral damage. At least a $100+ repair.

But what Beasho is describing is safe and looks insanely fun. I went out this last weekend and there was a cross swell once I got out in open water that was about waist high and perfect. The Wind Gods were against me however as I foiled out to the swell and the wind died. I spent the next hour furiously pumping in no where near enough wind in hopes of catching one of those waves. I知 hooked now. It痴 exactly what I hoped would be out there.

Also, weirdly, I realized that I知 never out that far except in a boat and in boats I don稚 notice the subtle swell patterns. Really cool to be off shore and watch the swell roll and cross and mingle. Fascinating, even if I couldn稚 ride them that time.


Beasho, everyone I know too surfs in surf stance and switches for a break or upwind as Dwight said. Once exception is Robert from Blue Planet who seems to just ride toeside and not switch.

I知 going to start a thread on toeside as I cannot get comfortable with it. I知 sure like all things 努ing it値l click one day soon.

PonoBill

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Re: Winging in Waves ADVICE
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2021, 10:02:57 PM »
I had at least a 90 buck session today. Stuck my stabilizer through my brand new F-one Strike 5/0. Well fuck. The idea of "Pros" not worrying about gear is kind of funny. Beasho fixes his own stuff and I don't think anyone gives him anything. I just sent him an old 280 wing, but I don't think that counts. I pretty much pay retail for everything. Ken Winner gave me some boom ends once, but I used one to make a carbon boom for his wife, Julie. I saw Ken today and kind of whined about not being able to get a new Duotone whatever they're calling that thing. He pretty much told me "tough titties". So I got that going for me.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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