Author Topic: Boom to non boom wing comparison  (Read 5573 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2021, 07:17:22 PM »
It's so simple to make a fake boom, I don't get why people who want a boom don't do it. I've been using mine since I first bought F-ones a year and a half ago. Best of both worlds. The Unit is begging for one--the deeply curved strut absolutely calls for one. You make one fake boom, put your harness lines on it, and it works for every non-boom wing you ever have. I've looked at the slicks very carefully, and they are ridiculously close to being Units with fake booms. I think a Unit with a fake boom that extends one hand distance beyond the rear handle would be magic for torquing up on the foil in light wind. I wish I'd bought a 6 and 7M Unit instead of echos--anyone want to trade? Eliminate the middle handle, add a fake boom and you have a Slick-ish.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

deja vu

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2021, 04:17:13 PM »

Esteban

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2021, 05:12:57 PM »
started on Duotone Echo w boom because thats what found to buy and seemed like an easy progression for me as an ex windsurfer ...then bought some Units because I thought it would be easier for traveling ( slightly more compact when packed up)

the big drawbacks i found to the Unit , or any wing with handles are this: when you pull the wing across the board and go to grab the second handle it can be quite a reach and if you don't nail it ya gotta start all over. then there is the squishiness of the handles, there is no way you can one hand spin a wing as fast as a boom due to the more direct movement transfer of the rigid boom...the boom makes it so nice for one-handed handling of the wing

starting is so easy one handed with the boom as well, just grab it in about the right spot and pull across and up!
the small amount of extra weight is well worth these advantages IMHO, I am sure I will get some feedback here though ;-)

In any case isn't it nice we have all these options, can't wait for my Slicks, seems like the perfect evolution

pafoil

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2021, 09:59:04 PM »
To all brands, please do a boom version NOW!
There is no preference discussion anymore.
Control, and wing feeling it's a lot better.
The weight issue, seems to be under control with these new slicks.
Installing a fake boom; it's just not the same, in terms of control and feeling the wing if you use the handles to attached the fake boom. I have not seen a decent fake boom with a solid direct connection to the struct that cannot be twist or rotate inside.


PonoBill

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2021, 10:36:15 PM »
PA, that just makes me think you haven't tried one other than perhaps the pathetic ones that attach in just one place on each handle. I do mine so that the handle attachment is at the front and back of each handle--The handle gets stretched tightly against the boom and the handle attachment becomes quite rigid. They don't twist, rotate or slide because the boom has a strip of self-adhesive velcro along the length. I have a Duotone 6 and 7M echo, and my fake boom for F-ones is easily as rigid as the Echo boom. This one has at least 100 days in the water. Probably more.

Oh, and I handled a Slick boom today. It was bare except for the boom wrap that duotone puts on it--a huge mistake in my view--an invitation to enjoy carpal tunnel syndrome and trigger finger. It felt about twice as heavy as my fake boom with four velcro straps, hockey tape in the middle for one-handing, and a hefty Duotone double adjustment harness line. Mine is about ten inches too long, but I haven't had a good reason to trim it up.

You can wait for manufacturers to build what you want, or you can spend a half-hour and make one of these. Your choice.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 10:52:48 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

pafoil

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2021, 07:07:55 AM »
Hi Pono,
Your input is always appreciated. I tried a similar version a while ago on the slinging V2, and the improved feeling was not worthy the extra weight.
Perhaps is related to the soft handles included in the V2.
The connection with the wing in my echo's feels a million times better.
How are these slicks behaving in the waves?

PonoBill

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2021, 09:48:39 AM »
I haven't tried the Slick in waves, but Dan Hall has one and he's been ripping up Ka'a with it. I'll ask how he likes it in the surf.

What on earth did you use that had detectable weight? Mine's a bit heavy because of the Duotone harness line, but my boom itself weighs 93 grams. I could get it down below 80g if I wasn't too lazy to trim it to the length I need.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 09:54:53 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

JonathanC

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2021, 01:22:46 PM »
Hi Bill,
Would you be kind enough to post a couple more detail photos of your boom, particularly how you did the Velcro. Wondering what the stick on Velcro on the boom mates to.
Thanks

PonoBill

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2021, 01:41:45 PM »
It's just a strip about an inch wide that runs the length of the attachment sections. I tape the ends down with hockey tape or shrinkwrap to keep them from lifting, but when the wraps are in place they hold the velcro down. I put the velcro on just to make it easier to position the double-sided velcro straps, but it turns out to be important to keep the boom from turning or wiggling around.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

GOTWAVZ

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2021, 02:14:05 PM »
The Unit is an incredibly powerful wing. Newer generation wings hopefully have more power, better low and top end but you know from windsurfing and kiting that newer doesn't necessarily mean better. Plenty of next generation sails and kites have turned out to be dogs compared to the previous generation. R&D gone bad. Still waiting for a review comparing the Slick to the Echo and Unit. Hopefully the draft is moved a touch aft IMO. The unboxing videos of the Slick are a good look at this exciting wing though. Dwight- Hundred bucks says you will have a quiver of Slicks as soon as they come out and you will drop those heavy Ensis wings like a hot potato. Your poor wife's arms!! She must be pissed....jk. Everyone get ready for half price Ensis wings on The Zone.

Nope. The next generation Ensis wings ship to me May 15th. A full quiver.


The Unit is an incredibly powerful wing. Newer generation wings hopefully have more power, better low and top end but you know from windsurfing and kiting that newer doesn't necessarily mean better. Plenty of next generation sails and kites have turned out to be dogs compared to the previous generation. R&D gone bad. Still waiting for a review comparing the Slick to the Echo and Unit. Hopefully the draft is moved a touch aft IMO. The unboxing videos of the Slick are a good look at this exciting wing though. Dwight- Hundred bucks says you will have a quiver of Slicks as soon as they come out and you will drop those heavy Ensis wings like a hot potato. Your poor wife's arms!! She must be pissed....jk. Everyone get ready for half price Ensis wings on The Zone.

Nope. The next generation Ensis wings ship to me May 15th. A full quiver.

Sorry to Hyjack but is there any info on the next Gen Ensis wings? i have the 2021 and love them


HB, CA, Oahu, HI
JK 7'-8' x 28"x 4" = 99L
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2021, 03:51:04 PM »

Sorry to Hyjack but is there any info on the next Gen Ensis wings? i have the 2021 and love them


Itís called the Score. Comes in 2.5, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.2, 6.2

This is a 1.8m prototype.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COvSTKcrU-u/?igshid=vd8jtx8k5hhz

https://www.instagram.com/p/COmuBlbrOFR/?igshid=1f4061479g91b
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 03:53:34 PM by Dwight (DW) »

pafoil

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2021, 09:43:18 AM »
I haven't tried the Slick in waves, but Dan Hall has one and he's been ripping up Ka'a with it. I'll ask how he likes it in the surf.

What on earth did you use that had detectable weight? Mine's a bit heavy because of the Duotone harness line, but my boom itself weighs 93 grams. I could get it down below 80g if I wasn't too lazy to trim it to the length I need.

I used a piece of paddle, vellcros and some tape to keep the straps in place. ;). (perhaps to much tape, is always my problem).
Perhaps you should make this your version commercial, Armstrong is selling a piece of carbon and 2 velcro for 100.

PonoBill

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2021, 04:53:56 PM »
Too much like work. Yeah, I've seen the Armstrong version--silly.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

FedorBOS

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2021, 07:48:04 AM »
I can't stop running through my head the inescapable logic that for most types of winging booms will inevitably be the tech of choice. I'm a new wing foiler, so this has nothing to do with what feels better (though based on comments on the forum, lots of people are pro-boom), but just basic physics. Handles provide almost zero torsional control, and have lots of play for all other control inputs vs. a true (not strapped to handles) boom which is connected to two hard points on the wing having direct control in all directions.

It is like driving a boat with cable steering vs. hydraulic. Cables have a dead spot in the middle, resistance before they move, stretch, friction, etc. while hydraulic is almost 1:1 control input to slave response. The handle/boom comparison is very similar. Even in our own sport world the rigidity of hand holds matter - think about how revolutionary the boom clamp was for windsurfing.

The other big factor would logically be pumping efficiency. The in/out flex of handles probably eliminates (or mitigates the efficiency of) 2-4" of the pump cycle, and if the pump is in total maybe 16" (probably less) that is a huge % of potential lift lost.

I think many people on here agree and clearly favor a real boom... but if so why is it so few wing companies are offering true boomed wings? The new F-1 Strike CWC (below) which is built for rigidity would be a much more stable foil if the main strut (boom) followed the curvature of the wing rather than being connected with fabric (which further cuts pumping efficiency) and it would create and ideal spot for a boom. Not to mention pulling out that connector and removing the handles would probably largely offset the weight of a carbon boom. Are they all just lemmings following the rest of the industry? Do they all have boom versions in development? It is very confusing considering how early stage everything is that more lines have not followed this path.

flkiter

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Re: Boom to non boom wing comparison
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2021, 08:03:24 AM »
The mini booms that cabrinha Mantis has have been the best handle set up I've used. Not perfect but on the right path. Packability, stiffness in riding, no crunching of the hands from long sessions and jumping. They could be stiffer, longer, and not have sliding in the sleeves they're in but for sure on the right path.

Maybe companies will offer D rings on their wings so users can pick where they want hands or booms. Add or take away stiffness and flex of connection.

 


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