Author Topic: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!  (Read 6462 times)

Sam the Surfer

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Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« on: March 07, 2021, 09:45:44 PM »
I’ve wing foiled about 15-20 times. I am pretty proficient heelside (strong) using an Ozone 6 or Gong 9. Flew low aspect wings (Gong XXL rise and Kings 36”) and went to the MFC 1600 on a 25” mast. Again, heel side (strong can fly).

My weak side can only sail and gain upwind advantage. When I gain flight weak side  I end up getting the wing dipping forward and I fall into it. Haven’t really tried toe side all that much but get ruined and go downwind.

Any tips before I put the gear up for sale?

Ben (Darthfern)

VB_Foil

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2021, 03:31:13 AM »
Check out Alan Cadiz Patreon page. He has a full tutorial vid on riding toeside.
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   3'11" 25L Armstrong
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   4’10” 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   5’11” 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 800, 850, 1050, HA1125, 1850, 2400
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

Dontsink

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2021, 05:33:05 AM »
A good tool to get coordination basics when riding on your bad side is a skateboard.
On flat or very mellow gradient and with helmet & pads.Nothing fancy, just roll straight and very shallow turns.
At first it feels totally sketchy but after a few days it will begin to click in.

Wingingtanuki

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2021, 06:51:42 AM »
I'm guessing you don't have any windsurf or kiteboarding experience but are a long time surfer.

If that's the case, and you surf equally well back and front side, I would think riding toe-side will be easier than riding heel-side on your weak side, but eventually you want to be able to switch your stance - so you're probably better off sticking it out through that learning stage.  Eventually, that toe side advantage will probably help with your jibes.

Biggest thing to make things easier: Once you are able to go and return to the same spot, try to go out on days with plenty of wind using your smaller wing.  Those big wings are harder to learn to foil on because it is too easy to dip a tip. (My biggest wing is a 5m - don't like big wings - there is a point of diminishing returns).

Other things to try - move mast forward, try a larger foil, change the width of your stance.  Change only one thing at a time so if there is an improvement or setback you know specifically what caused it.

oakfish

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2021, 12:29:12 PM »
Also possible that instead of a problem with riding switch, its the backward hands that are giving you trouble. When riding normally, your front arm often stays extended and your rear arm flexes to feather/control. When you switch side, you may be reverting to instinct. Your new rear arm (which was you front arm on your strong side) is staying extended, and you new front arm is flexing. That's a sure bet for a nose diving wing.
Just saw a video recently with good advice or a nose diving wing. As soon as you feel the wing turning down, punch the water with your back hand. It will shoot the wing up and keep it out of the water. Tried it this weekend and its a great cue.

flkiter

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2021, 02:26:56 PM »
A trick I use for my students to learn switch, start with your feet in more of a sup stance next to each other. When you pull the wing to your chest, pump your feet together. As you start to lift off the water, just bring your foot that will be the leading foot only 6 inches forward. So your heal of the leading foot will be about across from the toes of the rear foot. You can ride up wind like this, I find when people learn that they try to get into a surf stance and it hinders their balance.

Eventually you'll find a sport on the board where it's comfortable to ride with your feet next to each other and this will become the location to stand at when switching feet.

Sam the Surfer

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2021, 06:28:30 PM »
Thank you!! I have hope!! A skateboard is on its way. I’m looking at posted video links.

flkiter- how far in front of the mast should I position my feet in the SUP stance? Mid-board? Back?

Oak fish- good point! Down to get the wingtip up.

I can sail and flail up wind on the weakside. Spend 90% of my time doing that and then racing back strong.

Do I commit to weakside or learn toe side?

Thanks!

flkiter

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2021, 08:42:46 PM »
You'll be over or in front of the mast depending on the wind and foil. You'll feel it out. Trying to start toe side can also get you on foil easily since it'll get you to go more down wind which builds up speed and you'll foil. You have to go down wind to get to speed onto foil. If you try to go up wind too soon then you never get enough speed to get onto foil. Keep at it, it's worth the struggle. Also try the second handle on the strut for more power.

Hdip

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2021, 09:00:46 PM »
Before we keep helping him here let’s see what kind of gear might be up for sale and how good the deals will be. 😀

Sam the Surfer

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2021, 09:42:23 PM »
Yesterday they would have been amazing deals!! Lol

So maybe my angle is too up wind to get enough speed or power to fly? I gain ground upwind but that is it. When I do try and get on foil I usually end up getting the tip catching and I fall into it. So now should push my left arm down to get the wing tip up.

Curious about the sup stance...  I usually put my right foot towards the rail (goofy is weak side for me). If I went more staggered and 6” apart with the right foot forward?

I haven’t really tried toe side yet because I’ve heard to commit to the weak side and be able to gain ground and avoid the walk of shame.

No videos really show how to pump up toe side?

My commitment to the weak side is tough. I spend almost all my time sailing and not flying weak side only to turn the other way and fly. I have no wind experience obviously!!

bigmtn

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2021, 11:41:55 PM »
If you're up and going, then try a jibe and ride out toe side. Ride toe side till you fall, then switch feet and work on your weak side. If you want to ride waves you'll need to figure out toe side. I did almost 30 miles in overhead waves yesterday and I still haven't figured out weak side. I'll save that for the summer when its flat.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2021, 03:04:11 AM »

Do I commit to weakside or learn toe side?

Thanks!

At some point, everyone must learn weak side winging. It will be less of a mental hurdle/brain block/ to overcome, if you learn NOW and not wimp out and wait until later.

We just had a prone foiler visit the area for 3 weeks to get better winging. He was from Maine. The first few days he struggled to get away from the beach and upwind (on shore wind). His struggles came from not being able to ride toe side. He refused to try weak side because he was a “surfer”. This is not the first time we’ve heard this from “surfers”. The crew on the beach, gave him enough shit about not learning weak side, that he gave in and tried. He’s now riding weak side and happy we gave him shit about it. It also helps when a woman (Jacky) gives you shit too.

On his last days here, he was out riding and doing well in this on shore wind.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMI5-RYDXZO/?igshid=ov8wsgzz7mlo
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 03:05:54 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Dontsink

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2021, 03:33:48 AM »
With all these Youtube and Instagram vids Wingfoiling is getting this kind of super easy image, which is a bit misleading.
It is easier than other wind sports,but you still have to go through the hoops.
Many people that pick it up real quick have lots of previous experience kitefoiling,windfoiling,surf or supfoiling.
Some are in the biz as pros,shapers,retailers etc.. and get into the water very frequently,some have dreamy conditions regularly,some get the latest and best gear...or any combination.
It all adds up to this kind of pressure that everybody should be ripping in no time with a Wingfoil,and it is not realistic.

Wave wingfoiling is another bit of a white lie, unless you have a mellow sandbar or reef break it is really difficult to get out/in.
Standard beachbreaks and even an onshore wind with shorebreak are brutal on gear and can be really dangerous in ridiculous wave sizes.

So give it time,enjoy the little breakthroughs,do not compare to others too much.

juandesooka

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2021, 08:51:02 AM »
I haven’t really tried toe side yet because I’ve heard to commit to the weak side and be able to gain ground and avoid the walk of shame.

No videos really show how to pump up toe side?

My commitment to the weak side is tough. I spend almost all my time sailing and not flying weak side only to turn the other way and fly. I have no wind experience obviously!!

IMHO toe side riding is the #1 most important thing to learn, if your goal is to ride waves and swell.  As that's the key to carving.  Luckily it's fairly easy to learn -- just point straight downwind at decent speed...you'll find you're just standing there quietly and calmly enjoying the scenery.  Then just turn the other way slightly.  Then grab the wing and engage it a little.  There, you're riding toeside!  :-)    You can then work on getting the turn tighter, getting a fluid hand switch, getting as efficient a wing angle as possible to at least hold ground (I find going upwind toeside is super challenging and not worth trying for long....toeside is a temporary riding condition for me only).

Pumping up toeside...difficult and not worth the effort, better to invest the time to learn wrong foot forward.  The only time for me that a toeside water start would be worthwhile is in punching through swells in a beach break, so I can "chicken gybe" with my dominant foot forward (turn in front of a closing out swell, to avoid getting smooshed).

Agree with tips above on learning to ride with your non-dominant foot forward. Just takes time on water, dedication, pushing through the frustration....maximum humility!  It'll come. I find that my wrong-foot stance is halfway to normal surfer stance, as posts above say, it is easier to be partially offset.  Those reaches are only about 90% as efficient upwind as my dominant stance.  And toeside is probably 60% as efficient.  Try pointing downwind a little more than you would normally going the other way ... more wind power. If you point too far upwind without enough power, it falls apart (there's a sailing term for that), could be part of the problem?

clay

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Re: Help!! Gear almost up for sale!
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2021, 10:20:47 AM »
I remember learning to surf backside felt wierd but eventually clicked and same with toe side on the windding.

As far as catching the wing tips I posted a short video on the cause and how recover here:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,36594.0.html
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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