Author Topic: Dropped board size today  (Read 5945 times)

Mike dubs

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Dropped board size today
« on: February 23, 2021, 07:43:35 AM »
Have been on a Takuma SK foil sup 6’ 115L for last year. I’m 77kg and today rode my new board 5’6 85L Takuma TK.

Wow what a difference, everything seems easier. Was worried I’d struggle to start it, but was easy, I think I might have even got away with the 5’4 75L version.

The volume distribution and recessed scoop deck really encourage ur knees and feet into the right spot. Only took a couple of runs to get comfortable, also really easy to pump up. It’s also really light.

Really pleased and glad I’ve dropped down.

Mike

Caribsurf

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2021, 09:12:52 PM »
Good for you Mike, I know exactly where you are coming from after dropping down from 6’6” 115 Ltr Fanatic Sky Sup to 5’4” 95 ltr Sky Wing.  It’s made all the difference. Except for the knee start which is a little more difficult, the board is so much looser, and easy to switch foot and jibe.  Wish I had dropped down sooner, as now I know a bigger board was holding me back from progressing and improving.

Glad you made the switch, and if you are anything like me, you should improve with every session



Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

cnski

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2021, 06:13:21 AM »
I made a drop in board size too over Presidents Day weekend in Hatteras. It was a fun trip and I had the place to myself, literally. I demoed several Quattro wing boards and ended up on the 5'4" @ 90 L. My current board is a 5'4" @ 110 L. I weight about 110 kg but with my full 5/4 suit w/booties/gloves probably pushing 115+ kg. The 90 L board was a sinker for me for sure but I was able to get going using a new technique I discovered several months ago. I have never seen this method used in videos or described and it was actually pretty easy even in shallow water on a sinker board. I plan to make a video on how it's done. It's quick and slick!! Having a demo center available was an eye opener on what is possible with board size. I think I could have even rode the 80 L Quattro with this technique but didn't demo that one. It's fun riding smaller boards!! Congrats to all making a drop down in board size.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 06:14:56 AM by cnski »

juandesooka

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2021, 07:35:40 AM »
Nice! I dropped to 5' fanatic sky copy last summer, but didn't get enough days on it to get it dialed in.  Water starting was enough of a hassle that I found I was tentative about doing anything that risked coming off foil.  So for winter's unpredictable winds, I've gone back to ol' reliable....6.10 sup foil, 115L.

Spring is coming, soon time to get back on the program. Looking forward to playing around with smaller boards.

I am also excited to try again with the sinker board experiment....more and more first-hand reports of mere mortals accomplishing this, and more "how to" videos to follow.  The way it's evolving I suspect it may be like windsurfing, where in a short period of time most intermediate plus riders switched from uphauling big slalom boards to low volume wave boards. The water start unlocked it.  But not for all riders or all spots ... need some skills, need lots of wind, and need enough waves to bother.  Similar for winging.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish.   I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.

Solent Foiler

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2021, 09:12:36 AM »
I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish.   I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.
I'm riding a 34L board which is -30 and I can't see any benefit for going much smaller unless you're really chasing the last %. I think the shape of the board as well as the volume really helps to determine ease of getting up and foiling. My 34L is a 5'3, so quite big for its size which I reckon gives it more underwater stability in getting ready but also importantly, when I stand up it doesn't immediately sink underneath me. This board is relatively straightforward to get up and foiling (I'm no pro!) as long as there is enough wind to bring the board to the surface - that is the critical point. If I can get to the surface, then I'm away, so there's no point in making that step super hard by going smaller than you need to. It's really physical if you're on the low end of the wind range, because you have to pump the wing to get to the surface and then start your normal pumping routine to get foiling so double the effort!
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL on 100 monoblock mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m
[Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m Gong Superpower 6m]

juandesooka

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2021, 09:22:43 AM »
I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish.   I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.
I'm riding a 34L board which is -30 and I can't see any benefit for going much smaller unless you're really chasing the last %. I think the shape of the board as well as the volume really helps to determine ease of getting up and foiling. My 34L is a 5'3, so quite big for its size which I reckon gives it more underwater stability in getting ready but also importantly, when I stand up it doesn't immediately sink underneath me. This board is relatively straightforward to get up and foiling (I'm no pro!) as long as there is enough wind to bring the board to the surface - that is the critical point. If I can get to the surface, then I'm away, so there's no point in making that step super hard by going smaller than you need to. It's really physical if you're on the low end of the wind range, because you have to pump the wing to get to the surface and then start your normal pumping routine to get foiling so double the effort!

Thanks for advice!  I tried it briefly last summer, but was challenged in getting my larger surf foilboard to sink.  It was only a foot or so under water, which felt too floaty to get stable with the wing.  What I was wondering about is maybe a lower volume board may actually be easier, if it's sunk deeper it would be more stable, just requires more wind to get out of the hole (and I only intend to try this in high wind).  You agree?

I saw a video recently of a guy riding what looked to be a 4' board, thin profile ... which is what got me thinking about it. 

When pumping my 6.10 in swells, it feels like surf foiling ... just with a massive board.  Sure would be nice to mirror surf foiling directly.

Solent Foiler

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2021, 11:07:11 AM »

Thanks for advice!  I tried it briefly last summer, but was challenged in getting my larger surf foilboard to sink.  It was only a foot or so under water, which felt too floaty to get stable with the wing.  What I was wondering about is maybe a lower volume board may actually be easier, if it's sunk deeper it would be more stable, just requires more wind to get out of the hole (and I only intend to try this in high wind).  You agree?

I saw a video recently of a guy riding what looked to be a 4' board, thin profile ... which is what got me thinking about it. 

When pumping my 6.10 in swells, it feels like surf foiling ... just with a massive board.  Sure would be nice to mirror surf foiling directly.

There is definitely a balance between ease of getting ready and ease of getting foiling because what goes down must come back up! A smaller board will feel easier to sink and get ready on but will be harder to get foiling on (unless really windy!) And even when it is windy unless I'm really confident in the forecast I will manage my exposure to a potential long swim. On my 5m and Veloce L (1300) the lulls need to be more than 15 knots to be confident that I'll be able to get foiling, so will stay close to the launch spot if the breeze starts to drop. Fortunately when up, nearly everything is easier, so gybes are really reliable and it's not too stressful if the breeze drop a bit and I'm a bit further away. It's unlikely that it'll shut off so quickly that I can't get home!

One thing that surprised me when I started riding the small board is how familiar it felt using the same foil. Yes there's a noticeable difference but on my kit the difference between boards (5'3 Flint 95L, and 5'3 34L Catch) was about the same as swapping between my 1600 and 1300 foil on my Flint, so not game changing. I have a theory about why that was but probably for a different post... What I'm wondering is when I replace the Flint with something about my body weight volume wise, is how often I'll break out the 34L board.
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL on 100 monoblock mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m
[Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m Gong Superpower 6m]

juandesooka

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2021, 11:38:10 AM »

One thing that surprised me when I started riding the small board is how familiar it felt using the same foil. Yes there's a noticeable difference but on my kit the difference between boards (5'3 Flint 95L, and 5'3 34L Catch) was about the same as swapping between my 1600 and 1300 foil on my Flint, so not game changing. I have a theory about why that was but probably for a different post... What I'm wondering is when I replace the Flint with something about my body weight volume wise, is how often I'll break out the 34L board.

Good advice about managing the swim. The big board is a key advantage to winging over kiting, if the wind dies or gear breaks, I can easily paddle in.  Less so if using my 20L kite foilboard! So there's that to consider.

Interesting your Flint and Catch are same length but nearly 3x volume. Assume it is both wider and thicker?  I am in the midst of an experiment for surf foil, in going shorter and narrower but thicker (4.4x19x4.25 vs 5x20x3).  Goal is paddle-able by a 50 year old mortal in a 5mm wetsuit, but gains benefits of shorter.  Yet TBD if it works, though initial test seems positive...it floats me as well as my longer wider board. Overall, I suspect the new board may actually have more volume.

But back to winging, I am unsure how this new board may fit in the quiver.  It'll be too small to knee start, but too floaty to be a full-sinker ... seems like it may be kinda in-between and work for neither benefit.

RobM

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2021, 12:23:44 PM »
I made a drop in board size too over Presidents Day weekend in Hatteras. It was a fun trip and I had the place to myself, literally. I demoed several Quattro wing boards and ended up on the 5'4" @ 90 L. My current board is a 5'4" @ 110 L. I weight about 110 kg but with my full 5/4 suit w/booties/gloves probably pushing 115+ kg. The 90 L board was a sinker for me for sure but I was able to get going using a new technique I discovered several months ago. I have never seen this method used in videos or described and it was actually pretty easy even in shallow water on a sinker board. I plan to make a video on how it's done. It's quick and slick!! Having a demo center available was an eye opener on what is possible with board size. I think I could have even rode the 80 L Quattro with this technique but didn't demo that one. It's fun riding smaller boards!! Congrats to all making a drop down in board size.

Hey cnksi, I'll be interested to see if you are doing what I've been doing also.  I have a 5'0 SkyWing, 75 lt and I weigh ~93-95kg in full rubber, boots, hood,  so close to your -20 lt to weight ratio.  At that length and volume it's not a sinker for me, but it's a b$#$ch to get on to knee start, especially in very light wind. I cannot just mount the board on my knees with the wing floating beside me. My method has to be done quick to get to knee start and balanced on board with wing overhead. The steps are literally done as fast as possible 3-4 seconds or you're stuck in unstable no balance no mans land!
1. I'm in water next to board, I hold my wing in front hand on the handle that I prefer to wing with (2 back) with forearm resting on deck of board near front straps. 
2. Still holding wing in front hand, push up onto board with my front elbow/forearm and back hand/forearm, the front hand has to draw the wing over my head to windward while i get my chest up onto board. I'm also getting my front leg/knee sliding into position, while simultaneously getting back knee onto board.
3. Almost immediately, once I've slid knees into position and semi sprawled under wing on the board, I quickly reach for back handle and immediately power up the wing to be able to use it for balance and finalize/stabilize my knee start position.
4. Once I'm in classic knee start position with wing powered up overhead, it's all normal from there and doable.

Clear as mud from my description!  I've been doing this since last summer when I got the board as I found it was the only way to ever get up and going for me. I do it in all conditions, big wind swell, big wind (35+) and on the lightest end as possible (10 ish? to get to knees then stay that way till gust to get to feet and fly).  I've tried to explain it, but there's no comparison to seeing it done, never seen anyone do it online in video, and I've never had it video'd  Something to do some day I guess.  I suspect your board may be a tad easier as it's longer and wider, but I'm sure still sketchy at your float to weight ratio. Anyway, very interested to hear/see what it is you're doing! Cheers and happy winging!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 12:49:12 PM by RobM »
Me: 5'10" (178cm), 185lb (84kg)
Wings: Naish WingSurfer S25 5.3m,3.6m
Board: Fanatic 5'0 Sky Wing (75lt); BluePlanet foil sup 6'6" (116lt)
Foils: Axis 1000/370/short fuse (1310cm2); Neil Pryde Glide Surf L-1484cm2;
Mast: Axis 90/68cm; NP Flight 82cm,NP Glide 60cm

Solent Foiler

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2021, 01:50:59 PM »

Interesting your Flint and Catch are same length but nearly 3x volume. Assume it is both wider and thicker?  I am in the midst of an experiment for surf foil, in going shorter and narrower but thicker (4.4x19x4.25 vs 5x20x3).  Goal is paddle-able by a 50 year old mortal in a 5mm wetsuit, but gains benefits of shorter.  Yet TBD if it works, though initial test seems positive...it floats me as well as my longer wider board. Overall, I suspect the new board may actually have more volume.

But back to winging, I am unsure how this new board may fit in the quiver.  It'll be too small to knee start, but too floaty to be a full-sinker ... seems like it may be kinda in-between and work for neither benefit.

The Catch was Gong's surf/kite crossover board (now discontinued) and it's 5'3 by 18.5" which I think works here because the length helps the nose come to the surface easily and is very stable once on the surface, and the narrow width is a joy once up and flying because you have so much room to the water when carving hard turns. It was a bit of a fluke that I own this board, but been very happy at the ease of use for winging. The Flint is actually 5'6 (5'3 was a typo!) x 26.

I think your new board might find its place. You might very well work out a way to get it knee started, if you can lean on the wing to get settled and get some forward motion to stabilise things before standing.
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL on 100 monoblock mast
Duotone Slick 3m, 4m, 5m
[Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m Gong Superpower 6m]

juandesooka

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2021, 03:53:27 PM »
Hey cnksi, I'll be interested to see if you are doing what I've been doing also.  I have a 5'0 SkyWing, 75 lt and I weigh ~93-95kg in full rubber, boots, hood,  so close to your -20 lt to weight ratio.  At that length and volume it's not a sinker for me, but it's a b$#$ch to get on to knee start, especially in very light wind. I cannot just mount the board on my knees with the wing floating beside me. My method has to be done quick to get to knee start and balanced on board with wing overhead. The steps are literally done as fast as possible 3-4 seconds or you're stuck in unstable no balance no mans land!

Hey Rob: I have a DIY version of same board, though I'm lighter than you....75kg-ish without the 5mm wetsuit.  Just paddling the board without a wing, are you able to pop up to your knees?  Is it a balance issue or is it sinking?  [I first experimented with smaller boards on a buddy's surf foil. So tippy, I would often take 10 tries before I could get up.....and so by comparison, the Sky felt easy ;-)  ]

I am able to pop up onto my knees, holding top handle and leading edge on water surface -- like a tripod.  Hold that position until feel stable and a good gust, then a quick lift over head and away we go.  But there's 2 seconds in between that it's touch n go, may tip and fall off.  And maybe over and over.  I've considered experimenting with a mini boom that sticks out above wing leading edge, so the move to getting it overhead doesn't have that 2 second pause....immediately get wind in it once lifted.

Dunno if that might help?

surfcowboy

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2021, 08:13:59 PM »
Juand, I use the leading edge handle (front hand) and front strut handle (back hand) to get moving and stable. I can move back once I’m stable and moving. This allows me almost no lag since my front hand is on the LE handle while holding stable. Not powerful but moving.

pafoil

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2021, 10:15:58 PM »
Nice! I dropped to 5' fanatic sky copy last summer, but didn't get enough days on it to get it dialed in.  Water starting was enough of a hassle that I found I was tentative about doing anything that risked coming off foil.  So for winter's unpredictable winds, I've gone back to ol' reliable....6.10 sup foil, 115L.

Spring is coming, soon time to get back on the program. Looking forward to playing around with smaller boards.

I am also excited to try again with the sinker board experiment....more and more first-hand reports of mere mortals accomplishing this, and more "how to" videos to follow.  The way it's evolving I suspect it may be like windsurfing, where in a short period of time most intermediate plus riders switched from uphauling big slalom boards to low volume wave boards. The water start unlocked it.  But not for all riders or all spots ... need some skills, need lots of wind, and need enough waves to bother.  Similar for winging.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish.   I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.

Hi,
I have been playing with different options. For me the advantage of a small board is that you can water start fast, WHEN SUFFICIENT POWERED.
Let's say something like a 5m wing in 20-25 Knt or a 4 m in 30 knt. In those winds you can go directly for a normal windsurf waterstart.
Look at the video, I hope it helps. (44 litres- 82 kg rider)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0etT71d6AM

In any case, I'm waiting for a 55 litres and a 88 litres soon.




Caribsurf

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2021, 06:02:24 AM »
Great video...I’ve water started for years of windsurfing, so if I did drop to an even smaller board than my 95 liter, water starting should feel somewhat familiar.  Will obviously have to add foot straps.   
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
L41 Bruce Wayne 8’10”
Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil SUP 6’11”
Fanatic Sky SUP foil SUP 6’6”
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

RobM

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Re: Dropped board size today
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2021, 11:58:41 AM »
Hey cnksi, I'll be interested to see if you are doing what I've been doing also.  I have a 5'0 SkyWing, 75 lt and I weigh ~93-95kg in full rubber, boots, hood,  so close to your -20 lt to weight ratio.  At that length and volume it's not a sinker for me, but it's a b$#$ch to get on to knee start, especially in very light wind. I cannot just mount the board on my knees with the wing floating beside me. My method has to be done quick to get to knee start and balanced on board with wing overhead. The steps are literally done as fast as possible 3-4 seconds or you're stuck in unstable no balance no mans land!

Hey Rob: I have a DIY version of same board, though I'm lighter than you....75kg-ish without the 5mm wetsuit.  Just paddling the board without a wing, are you able to pop up to your knees?  Is it a balance issue or is it sinking?  [I first experimented with smaller boards on a buddy's surf foil. So tippy, I would often take 10 tries before I could get up.....and so by comparison, the Sky felt easy ;-)

Hey Juan, I've tried your method a few times and could never get it to work. The board deck is barely above water, and it's so tippy fore/aft + side/side in those moments trying to get the wing from beside the board to overhead without any wing pressure to stabilize against.  What I'm doing works for me now in all conditions, but I'm game to try waterstarts if windy enough, and to also work on the traditional knee start method you're describing.  See you on the water!
Me: 5'10" (178cm), 185lb (84kg)
Wings: Naish WingSurfer S25 5.3m,3.6m
Board: Fanatic 5'0 Sky Wing (75lt); BluePlanet foil sup 6'6" (116lt)
Foils: Axis 1000/370/short fuse (1310cm2); Neil Pryde Glide Surf L-1484cm2;
Mast: Axis 90/68cm; NP Flight 82cm,NP Glide 60cm

 


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