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Author Topic: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)  (Read 5289 times)

Beasho

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2021, 07:19:35 AM »
Seems odd about the prone speeds you posted though.  I am going faster than that on 3' waves and I am far from the local ripper.  Something wrong with the tech maybe?  My fastest speed has also been on sup foil on a bigger day, within a few mph though.

Speed is another indicator.  Big Waves = FAST.  Small Waves = SLOW.

There is a HUGE difference between 17 mph and 21 mph.  The only way to go >> 20 mph is on a big wave going straight (e.g. > 10 feet) or ripping down the line on a 6 - 8 footer at Pipeline.  Good luck on the foil.  Please share your speed data it will be informative. 

You are making the same point:  Big Days - SUP Foil.  Little days optimized for Prone foil.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 07:22:40 AM by Beasho »

surfcowboy

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2021, 08:13:45 AM »
For me, big days are a no go. I simply canít justify the risk at my age and with my responsibilities. If itís head high, I ride a foamie.

On a foil a waist high wave generates more punch and speed than I want anyway.

I respect your path Beasho, I mean that. But you must admit that you are part of a probably >24 person club (>12?)

Juan called it on the white water chip in. Thatís the coolest part. Hell I'm a crappy prone paddler but I can catch whitewater and get pushed along and slowly pop up. Hdip has seen some of my terrible pop ups hahaha. Iím a bit better now due to stretching and practice. But I know Iíll catch more waves prone due to chop and currents and other issues that make SUP hard for me. And when Iím up, oh man does it feel free!

Most folks (me included) deal with sub par conditions and the foil makes those epic days. I can find something on any weekend Iím free. In FL or TX foiling actually makes surfing somewhat possible as opposed to a rare treat that you have to take off work to enjoy.

Hereís a proposed summary so far. Iím going to say that if we are talking about 300 days a year in the most crappy 80% of waves in the world for the 80% of riders in the world who could choose either, maybe prone is a good option. SUP fills the other 20%.

I have no ego attached to my gear. When I canít prone, Iíll SUP and when I canít do that Iíll shoot video of the young guys who do it all and swim in the waves and when I canít do that Iíll sit on the beach and watch and tell stories until Iím ready to not do anything anymore, God willing.

You guys enjoy your paths. They are probably as unique as the members of this board.

Beasho

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2021, 09:42:49 AM »
Juan called it on the white water chip in. Thatís the coolest part. Hell I'm a crappy prone paddler but I can catch whitewater and get pushed along and slowly pop up. Hdip has seen some of my terrible pop ups hahaha. Iím a bit better now due to stretching and practice. But I know Iíll catch more waves prone due to chop and currents and other issues that make SUP hard for me. And when Iím up, oh man does it feel free!
. . . . .
You guys enjoy your paths. They are probably as unique as the members of this board.

Don't get me wrong, I referred to myself as a Mutant earlier.  I started to SUP 11 years ago because I wanted to catch MORE and BIGGER waves.  Then along comes FOILING and we can catch GREAT (worse) and longer waves.

Half Moon Bay is relatively terrible for surfing. 
TERRIBLE!!!! It is not the North Shore of Oahu that had me wondering why I was even foiling.  It doesn't have a FANTASTIC beach break like Ocean Beach in San Francisco.  Nor does it have the down-the-line RIP and glide of Steamer Lane in Santa Cruz. 

10 times per year Half Moon Bay gets the best big waves on the planet.  Another 50 days it is big, surly with chop, piss and vinegar.  Fortunately the point that is Mavericks dishes up size the other 250+ days.  But it is the size and temperament that only a foiler might enjoy.

This was my first day on the foil.  June 2017.  I could see the potential with foil eyes.  The beauty of riding the otherwise un-rideable.  Gliding for 100's of yards when everything else would stall out.  Whether SUP or Prone it is more fun than it looks in all conditions big and small.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXuFGAfer7A
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 09:51:29 AM by Beasho »

clay

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2021, 10:48:15 AM »
For me it's about the right tool for the job.

When I started foiling I had already made the switch to 100% sup surfing.  At the time pretty much everyone was learning via sup foil.

Then 3 years ago the prone foilers were ripping and it made switching seem very appealing. West coast foil club, etc...

Then Derek Hamasaki was blowing everyone's mind with his sup pumping and radical lay back turns.  Shorter sup allowed me to progress and made switching seem less appealing.

The 2 best foilers in norcal both sup foil.  If the prone guys were raising the bar the highest that might tempt me.

If I lived in FL or somewhere with mush Beach break prone would be appealing.   When ocean beach is small a handful of prone foilers are present.  At head high or bigger usually zero.

In 4 years of foil surfing I have only had one run in with a fellow foiler acting like a jerk.  Guess what board he was on?
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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Hdip

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2021, 11:09:53 AM »
So we didn't learn from Jeff Clark that telling the whole world "Maverick's is the best wave in the world and I'm surfing it alone" is a bad thing?

juandesooka

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2021, 01:31:59 PM »
Speed is another indicator.  Big Waves = FAST.  Small Waves = SLOW.

There is a HUGE difference between 17 mph and 21 mph.  The only way to go >> 20 mph is on a big wave going straight (e.g. > 10 feet) or ripping down the line on a 6 - 8 footer at Pipeline.  Good luck on the foil.  Please share your speed data it will be informative. 

You are making the same point:  Big Days - SUP Foil.  Little days optimized for Prone foil.

I was recording sessions for a while, but the data is locked in my broken phone. From my journal notes: my fastest ride was on SUP on a bigger wave: 42kmh.  But my fastest prone ride on that same day, slightly smaller spot, was 41kmh.  26 vs 25mph.

I agree that sup foil has greater potential for higher speeds, given the challenges of prone paddling in to bigger waves earlier.  But I don't agree about twice as fast and definitely not on average.  Quite the opposite: on a typical day around here, on regular size foil wave, the proners are likely going 50% faster and covering way more ground with racing down the line and cutbacks to the peak, etc.

Back to the OP: I love sup foiling and still do it on its day, but prone foil is generally more dynamic and fast. I see it as roughly equivalent to SUP vs shortboard surfing for most riders.

bigmtn

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2021, 01:45:18 PM »
The pic of Haley and the pic above it of Kawika, could be the same size wave taken from a different angle. Big, slopey, with some white water on top....  But who cares how big the wave is? Are you looking for some kind of trophy or something?

Foiling is fun, big or small waves.  No need to turn it into a dick measuring contest.

surfcowboy

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2021, 07:10:48 PM »
lol Bill, 100%

Ok Iíll pop the cork on here. How many people who have foiled both prone and SUP more than 10 sessions mostly foil SUP now?

Thatís the stat the OP would find most interesting Iíll bet. The rest is speculation, right?

red_tx

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2021, 07:55:46 PM »
Ill tell you what.. After learning how to rip the dog shit out of my GL210 and 12 inch flip short pedestal on my Standie, I am ready to mount that puppy on my tiny HighRoller prone foil board this summer!

I tried prone foiling when I first started and it was a lot learning how to pop and fly at the same time.

From stand up paddle board I was able to bust a quick ollie and then off to the races.

Now that I know how to fly and how to taxi before takeoff I am ready to head back to prone.

I will always stand up mainly as most of the time you cannot get around prone foiling where I surf. Too much current and what not.

With the standie and foil I can make up 20-30 yards quickly north or south to get ready for the next swell.
-red

Vancouver_foiler

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2021, 08:24:30 PM »
I have no argument (today) with what Juan says. Maybe tomorrow though since we talk basically everyday lol.
The thing with Supfoiling is the ability to get much larger waves, and go much faster dtl as a result.
convince me I'm wrong-go.

jondrums

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2021, 01:01:29 PM »
I have a bunch of thoughts - this topic is super timely because I'm trying to decide whether a prone board is my next gear project.

After 2.5yrs of SUP foiling regularly (2-300 sessions in all kinds of conditions) I spent about 10 sessions trying to learn to prone and another 20 or so sessions generally being able to prone.   After that I went back to 100% SUP foiling for a variety of reasons.  The main one is that my prone board has the tuttle in the wrong place making it super hard to get into waves.   

But I think a huge part of this question depends on exactly what kind of waves we're trying to surf.  I've taken my foil SUP to a huge variety of waves ranging from some of the stuff that Beasho is talking about in half moon bay (the smaller stuff), to beach breaks, to perfect foil waves like SanO and Cowells.  I still have not come away from a single session totally unhappy.  The SUP foil is so incredibly versatile with regards to conditions, for me it takes the cake.  Windy, choppy, huge and fast,  steep stuff, mushy and tiny, it doesn't matter, the SUP foil can do it.

I was on a SUP out this morning at Cowells and it was heavenly (hi Clay - saw you as I was leaving).  There were a handful of SUP and prone guys out at the same peak and we were all catching the same waves in roughly the same spot.  I sort of had a small edge over the prone guys on the waves that weren't quite breaking enough, but not much of an edge.  I rode the waves 3-400yds to the beach and happily paddled back out and all the prone guys kicked out after a hundred yards to either pump back or avoid the paddle back. 

I think I would have had the same amount of fun on prone or SUP, probably more fun on prone due to the swing weight and no loss of wave catch for these smallish slow moving waves.  But for an everyday, every condition, versatile solution - I still don't think you can beat a foil SUP.  I've had really great days when the prone guys were bumming.

surfcowboy

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2021, 07:57:29 PM »
Thx Jon, sage words.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2021, 05:18:38 PM »
Yeah, checking back in on this post because I'm thinking about getting a prone foil setup. Now.........I get the whole size and being able to hold a bigger wave on a sup foil. That's most definitely not a problem for me, I'm in South Carolina on little knee to waist high waves. Don't feel that bad for me though, we have some great inlets and different spots that are a foil heaven.

So........taking wave size out of the equation, obviously easier to catch with a sup, and some of the longer paddles are easier with a sup. I'm thinking a mix of both possibly. I just feel like pumping back out, etc. will be easier on a prone.
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jondrums

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2021, 01:09:46 PM »
100% pumping back out will be easier on a prone.  From riding several different SUP boards and a few prone boards - I will say with absolute certainty that pumping on a smaller board is much much easier.  I can almost always get 2 for 1s on prone anytime I want to.  On my SUP I can only get it once or twice a session - and I've worked really hard to optimize this setup for pumping (perfect placement of the foil, lightest construction possible, etc).  There is just no margin for error once you make a mistake pumping a SUP - AND it is a lot more work.  I'm completely gassed on my SUP when I make the transfer turn onto the second wave. 

I think the really lightweight guys can make the SUP go well because they can ride a really small (short and light) SUP.  Derek looks like he's riding a 70-80L SUP that can't be even 5' long.  Pretty huge difference compared to my 5'8" 115L.  I can really tell the difference in pumping when I drop down to my 107L board at only a half pound lighter and same length.

surfcowboy

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Re: Switch to Prone (Pros/Cons)
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2021, 04:13:39 PM »
Appst, I'm going to say that if you're in little gutless waves catching the whitewater would be the jam. And yes, less swing weight on the board is the thing. A few pounds sounds like not a lot, but when you put it out on the end of levers in basically every direction it's huge.

The first time you stand up on a prone board on foil it feels amazing. Way better and more dramatic than the difference between SUP surfing and say a longboard or midlength surfboard. This is like going from walking to flying.

 


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