Author Topic: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....  (Read 1897 times)

Jeroensurf

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Hi,
I started with wing dinging in oct, in the Netherlands that autumn and around 10C and going down ,today the lakes were frozen but last week when the air was +1 and the water probably too I as still 2h out on the lake because it was too onshore with a big beach break, shallow sandbanks etc.
I,m 95/97kg use a Fanatic 5.8 and 2th hand Go-foil 29.5mast, M200+IWA with a 4-5-6m wing. I wing most of the time at sea where we have slow windwaves that get steep from knee to 2-3m high.
I started with this for the days that wave sailing is boring but i,m so hooked that I only wave sail when it is solid 4.7 weather or more, otherwise i,m rather riding the swell and waves with my wing...dry jibing is still a lot of splashes. :)
The Maliko200 was awesome to learn on and fine when the swell is rather flat, but the wing is simply not fast enough to keep up with the waves or creates soo much lifts out.
The IWA doesnt have that problem, its just fast enough, but it need a steeper part of the wave.

Because i,m soo hooked i,m considering buying a set of new GF wings. Because there is no dealer in the Netherlands i have to order without trying and in Europe they are pretty expensive so you don,t want to buy the wrong size.
So far i found that the GL210 would be a bit like the M200 for light wind but faster and with less the tendency to foil out so that seems something to fit me.
But i,m looking for a smaller wing for when its bigger/windier as well. As i like a challenge I was thinking about an NL wing. Probably need to grow into it, but what size would complement the GL210? an NL190 or 160??
Or are you guys saying forget the NL and get a smaller GL?

When i,m splashing a lot of cash anyway another option is to sell the GF set and buy a whole new quiver from another brand.
Suggestions (I,m considering a Armstrong 1850+ an?? or an Axis quiver where i have really no clue wat to buy for wiggling on a wave with the wing that I won,t outgrow in 3 months.


Hdip

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2021, 02:59:46 PM »
I don't wingding, but I can answer the AXIS which wing to buy question for it.

Carbon or Aluminum mast is up to you. Aluminum will be stiffer and cost less. Probably in the 85 cm range.

Black series fuselage.
Black series 980 front wing. 420 rear wing.

clay

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2021, 04:55:39 PM »
90kg+ guy looking for wing ding foil, I would and did get an Axis setup, and for winging the new black stuff looks fun.  Very robust, durable, and functional foils.  And if I guess wrong on what to buy the resale is good, I was able to sell a front wing for what I paid for it, I have bought and sold a lot of foils and that's first time I didn't take a bath.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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supfoo

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 08:17:37 PM »
I really like the GL wings, 140 or 180 will be great for stronger winds. As far as the NL goes, 160 is what you need for stronger winds. Keep in mind it’s for all out performance with fast speed. Not my cup of tea yet. Also, your going to want the long pedestal with either 14.5 or 17 in flip tail.
If you go another route there will be a lot screws to deal with....

juandesooka

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2021, 09:24:36 PM »
Buddy and I have been on Gofoil past 2 seasons, upgraded from slingshot, have been loving the kai/iwa/m200 combo for surf, sup, and winging.   The M200 has been my go to for wing, I find the iwa only has enough lift in very strong winds.

We recently updated to GL wings to get the high aspect thing going, me a 180 and 240, buddy a 210.  Tons of glide and speed, great lift, but turning was slightly challenging, required quite a bit different approach.

I knew I'd get it with practice, but decided to throw $ at the problem, I got NL 160, buddy got NL 190.  Loving it surf foil, instantly.  And on wing, also loving it...it has been pretty windy, so the 160 has been amazing, has had no lift issues yet.  My buddy though, he is finding HA transition not as great, he is back to switching off with his tried and true M200 and Iwa...just likes how stable and turney they are comparatively.

Anyways, that's our story if it helps. And have GL 180 and 210 for sale, pm me if want info. In Canada though, may be prohibitive shipping.

Solent Foiler

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2021, 01:56:49 AM »
I'm going to be controversial here, and suggest you buy a cheaper foilset now, and go for Gong. Reason being is that you are still quite early in your wing foiling so your current need will be different to what you need next year, the Gong stuff is cheap enough that you can experiment with different foil sizes and designs without too much cost, it gives you an opportunity to educate yourself with a non premium brand so you can easily compare whether the extra money of premium is worth it, and you can resell easily without much loss when you want something else and buy the next generation of winging foils that get released in 12-24 months time.

If money isn't a problem then perhaps you may not want to go down this path, but I think the Gong stuff is good and worth considering even if you can afford more expensive. Foiling is a journey, and you'll always been looking at new kit. It's evolving so quickly still...

I've done a similar thing with foils and wings. I have a full Gong quiver of both, but I've just put a deposit down on 2 new Aluula Ocean Rodeo wings, which are £1000 each... Hope they're worth it, because that is double the cost of a Gong wing! But I will be able to tell if it's worth it because my level is at a point where I will understand the differences to the Gong.
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL on 100 monoblock mast
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

Jeroensurf

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2021, 04:48:31 AM »
@Juan,
Thanks for the info! Whats your weight and from your buddy as that has influence on the wingsize too.
Shipping from Canada to Europe is insane expensive due the additional taxes (tried that before with a mountainbike) otherwise I bould buy them straight away :)
I must say an 210GL and 160 NL looks very tempting.

Out of the blue I heard today that the new Neilpryde probably arrive in a week and when its a bit warmer I can demo those.
The first ones felt really solid and the HP look very good/make sense size wise so that is an option too (and not to expensive too) I want to try first before buying GF.

@Solentfoiler: I tried gong and although I like the look of the foils but they feel rather stiff/solid to me and all the interesting parts like the Veloce are constantly sold out as well.
I have no problem with spending on good kit, but just don,t want to buy the complete wrong kit :D


Wingingtanuki

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 05:05:33 AM »
My background is in design and engineering.

Armstrong is best in terms of quality and materials.

As far as how they ride, I’ve only had Naish  and Armstrong. Armstrong is easier, more “flowy” and even faster for me. Speed will depend on the sizes and rider level.

I’ve never ridden Axxis, but that red looks cool.

A crappy rider will ride a top of the line foil worse than a top rider on a crappy foil - so for me (being average at best) the focus is on ease of use and materials more than what’s going to be faster or ride Jaws better. I’ll let Kai worry about getting the last 1% in performance out of his gear.

Beasho

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 07:27:53 AM »
But i,m looking for a smaller wing for when its bigger/windier as well. As i like a challenge I was thinking about an NL wing. Probably need to grow into it, but what size would complement the GL210? an NL190 or 160??
Or are you guys saying forget the NL and get a smaller GL?

I have ridden 8 GoFoil wings with 700+ hours of experience in waves.  500+ sessions (I missed writing a few down).  I weigh 85 Kilos and have ~ 20 sessions winging.

I would recommend:
1) GL210
2) NL160


The GL210 and NL190 are TOO similar and the NL190 does NOT have a favorable lift component for winging.  The NL wing profile is like a fighter jet vs. Cessna wing for the GL210.  Yes faster but you need a lot of POWER to move and fly.

I Love my NL190 in the waves and it has 1 extra gear to get into and pump on to FASTER waves (think 14 or 15 second period).  But waves and wave speeds are not winging and winging speeds.  When winging in light air I still grab my M200.  In heavy air I use the GL210.  I used the NL190 winging in Hawaii but was fully powered on a 5.0 Duotone. 

I have an NL130 and it has NO TOP END limitations.  I will only surf the NL130 on if the wave faces are guaranteed to be 10 feet or more.  No one else (apparently) wants to do this.  YES the wing stays down but doesn't pump very well.  The NL190 stays down in BIG stuff too (I hit 27.7 mph / 44 kmh on a wave last week on the NL190) and this has me wondering if I could have split between the NL190 and NL160.  At your weight the NL160 will take you to Infinity and Beyond.

The GL140 was also a very special wing.  A touch more punchy lift than the NL130.  But really nice.  If you can find an older GL140 get it.   
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 07:29:49 AM by Beasho »

Jeroensurf

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 08:14:19 AM »
Thanx Beasho!
I try the Neilprydes HP, but they have to damn good otherwise I get the GL210/NL160 combo you advice.
What backwing do you use?
Luckily its iceskating time right now, so that gives me a bit of a thinking period :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 08:34:16 AM by Jeroensurf »

Beasho

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 08:56:09 AM »
What backwing do you use?

18 inch Narrow Tail. BUT I will add a HUGE caveat --> with The SHIM.

I was dismissive of shims and modifying the angle of the tail.  Then my friend Josh, with only 1 year of experience, mentioned how much better the NL190 and GL210 flew when WINGING with a tail shim.  I was having trouble getting it up and HE WAS RIGHT.

When I want to go fast and KEEP the wing down on a BIG wave - NO SHIM.

When I want to PUMP or add lift for Winging - Add the TAIL SHIM as shown.  It is just a sliver of a credit card.  Just place behind rear screw and Tighten.  A crazy amount of added versatility and flight characteristics.  It would have added HEAPS to my learning curve on the WingDing.  Even move the SHIM between the screws for MORE lift. 

As Bernie Briskin taught me "You're never too old to learn something new."

Jeroensurf

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 09:51:32 AM »
 :)
Thanx :)
The good news is that if I have ordered the GL210/NL160/backwing/pedestral set my creditcard us useless anyway so can use if for shimming ;D

juandesooka

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 10:31:48 AM »
:)
Thanx :)
The good news is that if I have ordered the GL210/NL160/backwing/pedestral set my creditcard us useless anyway so can use if for shimming ;D

@Juan,
Thanks for the info! Whats your weight and from your buddy as that has influence on the wingsize too.

I must say an 210GL and 160 NL looks very tempting.

credit card.....hahahaha good on ya! Seriously though, I tend toward frugal/cheap as, but will thrown down when needed ... and for me, I want to try for next-level performance, and I needed to be sure the gear had no limitations, so any problems are isolated to me and technique and training and practice. 

I am 165lb, buddy is 200ish.  I mostly prone surf foil, he mostly sup foils.  I tend to ride one foil-wing size down between prone and sup foil, and one foil-wing size up winging. I have two masts, can generally have my sup/wing foil and surf foil always set up and ready to go (sprinter van, yeewwww). But that's where the NL160 has been a surprise so far....I find I am using it equally for surf, sup, and winging....and finding I am switching it a lot more than I'm used to.  Either it's the honeymoon period or that wing is magic.  Maybe both.

I ride gofoil mostly as it kind of worked out that way -- a big part of it being the gear felt safer than the slingshot's metal and sharp edges, my wife actually encouraged me to upgrade!  Though that is one negative of the NL series, those wingtips are razor sharp, I took a file to them after nearly taking an eye out (freak accident).  The other negative of NL is the wingtips are fragile, one is now broke off.  :-(  Oh and another negative I don't like...having to take the rubber mallet to it to get wings off. 

For other brands, seems to me Armstrong is widely regarded as the best in show, with prices to reflect it.  Gong is in bottom third, but seems servicable for the price. Overall, Axis seems best value, in finding the sweet spot at the high end of alum mast gear and wings for everyone -- maybe too many options.

I think gofoil lost its market dominance in being slow to move to HA wings.  But now that it's gone there, into its 3rd gen, I have to say there was something to the simplicity of having 3 wings total, just use the one that's sized best for the day, spend a lot of time to learn its quirks and how to max it out.  Now, with so much choice and limited water-time, there's the risk of spreading my learning time too thin.

Beasho: thanks for tip on shim, going to try that

Hdip

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2021, 11:01:34 AM »
Steamroller is mostly prone foiling now, but he's 230+ and rides the nl160 pretty much exclusively now from what I see in his photos. Seems to be a magic wing.

PonoBill

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Re: What foil? Go foil GL/NL quiver or change everything and buy brand.....
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2021, 11:14:05 AM »
GoFoil is fine, though the plug approach to wing and stabilizer seems like a limitation. The fit has to be hammer-tight for it not to wobble.

I switched to Axis for their attachment method. The excellent wing selection and continual innovation is a happy surprise. I think they make some of the best wings in the biz, and they are easier to tune.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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