Author Topic: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping  (Read 4787 times)

winged surfer

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2021, 02:50:37 AM »
Yes, i was already in mind to get a session behind the boat. I think it will help a lot.
Just watched that video, he is an alien 😃

peterp

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2021, 03:48:18 AM »
#Following

I really liked the comment about getting the foil higher in water (I guess this has to do with decreasing drag of mast and/or getting foil wings nearer wave energy). When I do this I notice it has a huge benefit for wave riding. I notice it as more speed and glide. So I think my problem is not enough speed and glide.


The reason riding higher reduces drag is that the amount of water (density) above the foil is reduced. As the foil pushes through the water it pushes the water up and the closer the foil is to the surface, the less water it has to displace, before it is displacing air, which is obviously much lighter.

It's essentially the opposite of ground effect. If you have ever tried paddling a SUP in the shallows you will feel the SUP almost feels like it is stuck in mud. This because the water the SUP is displacing is being pushed down, and if it is shallow enough (there is a formula for this), then this water will bounce off the bottom and refract back up towards your SUP which slows you down. If you ever have SUP races with some deep and shallow parts, make sure to place yourself in the deep part and invite your competitors to place themselves in the shallow parts.......

Dontsink

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2021, 06:27:39 AM »
#Following

I really liked the comment about getting the foil higher in water (I guess this has to do with decreasing drag of mast and/or getting foil wings nearer wave energy). When I do this I notice it has a huge benefit for wave riding. I notice it as more speed and glide. So I think my problem is not enough speed and glide.


The reason riding higher reduces drag is that the amount of water (density) above the foil is reduced. As the foil pushes through the water it pushes the water up and the closer the foil is to the surface, the less water it has to displace, before it is displacing air, which is obviously much lighter.

It's essentially the opposite of ground effect. If you have ever tried paddling a SUP in the shallows you will feel the SUP almost feels like it is stuck in mud. This because the water the SUP is displacing is being pushed down, and if it is shallow enough (there is a formula for this), then this water will bounce off the bottom and refract back up towards your SUP which slows you down. If you ever have SUP races with some deep and shallow parts, make sure to place yourself in the deep part and invite your competitors to place themselves in the shallow parts.......

Dont know about SUP racing but in general ground effect reduces resistance.
Airplanes glide more,hidrofoils too,swimmers go faster etc...

Edit: i just searched for this and swimmers are faster on deep water so you are right sir :)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 07:12:51 AM by Dontsink »

Hdip

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winged surfer

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2021, 06:37:01 AM »
So i tried behind the boat in flat water with 1125ha, 85 mast and 60 fuse.
I still donít get how to push more the front let..
i have some questions for you:
- do you think taking off the rear strap would help?
- do you think using the 1250 Hs instead of the 1125 Ha will make
It easier?
- how can i push more with the front leg?


i find it easier once you get the right rithm with the arms but it took me almost 30 min to get there to that little progression  :'(
Also how can i make all that arm movement with a wing in one hand? :)

Thanks!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qWg2vvBNAo


« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 06:41:41 AM by winged surfer »

winged surfer

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2021, 12:43:57 AM »
after few more tries i can confirm:
- you definitely want to be at the top of the wave, it is there that you have the most energy
- the foil likes to be close to the water surface, it seems more efficient there when you pump
- the swinging movement of the arms is super important

Thanks everybody once again for all your advices, they help me a lot in my progression. I still have to much work in front of me but the goal is getting better and better.
i share here my latest session towed in by the efoil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z88QQwgWvY


Hdip

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2021, 08:05:32 AM »
Take your straps off. Try different foot positions. You have a lot going on with your upper body. Try unweighting your board and bending your knees more. Imagine hanging from a bar and doing a leg lift. Bring knees up to waist level.

FoilColorado

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2021, 08:55:46 AM »
When you let go of rope, move back foot forward a couple inches.
Less arm movement, power comes from glutes quads and calfs

Hwy1north

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2021, 10:41:53 AM »
Take your straps off. Try different foot positions. You have a lot going on with your upper body. Try unweighting your board and bending your knees more. Imagine hanging from a bar and doing a leg lift. Bring knees up to waist level.

This.

Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si628pgJnsg

The "jumping jack" really helped me feel the diference between pushing down on the board and trying to lift the board.

EastBayFoiler

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2021, 03:25:00 PM »
I kinda just figured pumping out. I'm still hardly the best, but I thought I'd share.

I started pumping like everyone else... watching youtube and flailing a wing about while on a board. I didn't get far with that. It was killing my biceps tendons from the jerky motion and I didn't seem to make much progress. I focused on other things for a while. Finally I started getting up on foil just by having enough wind. (I know this isn't an option for everyone.) I just went to a windy spot and let it take me up. After I had a bit of a feel for what I needed for speed with my foil, I started just flapping my back hand a little for that last extra bit of thrust. As I got a better feel for what a power felt like. I started mixing it up a little with a couple pumps from my foot. And later I kinda just figured out something that looks pretty close to 'normal' pumping.

The big piece to me is always play around with what you are doing. Pay attention to what you are doing. And, make sure you have some fun! This alone is enough to get you where you need to be. I say that largely because even after watching all the videos I still had to get out on the water and get a feel for it. Words aren't great as describing balancing  and physical knowledge.
Naish S26 Hoverwing GS 125L, Axis 1060BSC/440

PonoBill

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2021, 08:55:27 AM »
I don't focus much on pumping here in HoodRiver--we've got too much wind to worry about that. But recently it's been pretty poopy with this heatwave, so I've been on my 6M, struggling to get up. Yesterday I had a breakthrough that involved pumping.

What I did was pull down on the wing with both hands, focused a little more on the rear hand, and lifted up with both feet, trying to reach my elbows with my knees. One pump and I'm up. Maybe two at worst. Unfortunately, I'm up but I don't have much forward speed, so I have to pump the wing like mad to keep rolling, but I'm up right away, and that's using the 1000/390 short-fuse combination.

So I thought "what would happen if I used the 1300 and no wingding". The answer is, I can get up... ...sort of. I fall right back down, because I'm hardly moving (I guess), but I get up! This seems to have potential. I don't know for what, but I'm going to explore it.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2021, 07:54:23 PM »
Ok, ok, I have to step in.

House rules: You now have to say whether youíre talking about foil pumping (legs) or wing pumping (arms & wing.) This is outta hand. lol

Wing pump, I got down, scoop the wind in a circle, downward and back out. Boom, power. Foil pumping to get on foil with the wing, I do sort of what Pono does if only his skeleton was doing it. (Sorry man, I had to. Youíre a full grown man. lol)

Foil pumping alone I can do while moving but canít keep going. But itís feeling better. Damienís jumping jack is a good way to think about it, but abandon that style soon please. We are kooky enough 😂.

My next session Iím commenting to flagging the wing and pumping a bit and getting ready to surf this thing.

Califoilia

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2021, 02:27:40 PM »
Damienís jumping jack is a good way to think about it, but abandon that style soon please. We are kooky enough 😂.
Now in all fairness, he did say "You're gonna look like a moron, I totally did it, totally worth...you definitely lose friends, but I learned how to pump".  🤣

Regardless of the quality of his info - I think it's pretty decent myself, but hell, what do I know, or I wouldn't be watching it 🤷‍♂️ - the guy's enthusiastic personality, and "just go for it" attitude are infectious, and make you want to get out there and try whatever it is he's talking about at the moment.

So if/when you see me out there clapping my hands while trying to hold the freakin' paddle, y'all know that I'm working on just another angle of the elusive pump game on a SUP...when you don't have sub-40 y/o lungs and/or the stamina....lol 🤦‍♂️🙃
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 02:31:01 PM by Califoilia »
Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

surfcowboy

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2021, 08:01:28 PM »
Oh, Iíll be doing the claps too. Just reminding not to stay there lol.

Hdip

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Re: Please look at my mistakes! - Pumping
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2021, 11:39:35 AM »
Instead of jumping jacks where youíre going up and down. Try and think of it like youíre in the starting gate of a snowboard race. Both hands in front of you on the gate. You pull forward and push body:hips forward through the gate. Thatís the main pump motion. Itís the move you do to gain speed on the pump.

 


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