Author Topic: Winging in very strong wind try2  (Read 10231 times)

Dontsink

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2021, 10:34:23 PM »
In winter i get a lot of 20-30kt days.
Above 25kt i am in survival mode with a 4m wing,i have to umbrella it so much that it gets difficult to keep some forward drive.
I will probably get a 3m for next season.

My biggest gripe when it gets to 25kt and gusting is that when you fall the wind easyly picks & flips the board and it can land anywwhere, on me or the wing...i started to use a bike helmet on those days and now i always use it.It is warm :).

Phils

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2021, 03:04:31 AM »
My smallest kite was a 3 meter.  My smallest wing is a 2.8.  Both are too big in winds averaging over 30 MPH.  I have no desire to go out in anything stronger.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2021, 03:32:12 AM »
  Riding on the Indian River around Sebastian Inlet (FL) yesterday with gusts to maybe 33ish on my 4m echo.

Wait, what....you’re in Florida?

Everyone was at Ft Pierce yesterday. Behind the jetty. This was the wind sensor there.



You should go there in a N to NE. Super easy fun ocean place. Don’t go there today. They show it a tick trending NW. It’s gusty in that direction.

This was yesterday. Harry is on a 3.0m

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKmuP47rstw/?igshid=1rffpla9mygv5
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 03:39:22 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Caribsurf

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2021, 05:06:51 AM »
OBX Dave, I was also out on Indian River south of Sebastian yesterday ..I was out around 1:30 to 3   The corner offered a little protection from those crazy winds, but once you reached the wind line further outside, it was chaos....that’s my usual spot these days so I hope to see you out there.
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2021, 07:09:56 AM »

PonoBill

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2021, 07:39:42 AM »
I'd love to see some wind like that in SoCal--especially if it wasn't part of a storm that skanks up the water. It looked like everyone is on pretty big wings except for the guy with the red wing with the black leading edge that the camera followed. Is that kind of wind unusual enough that small wings are rare? It's not easy for me to tell wing size from pics but everything else looks like 4.0 or greater, and that looks like 3.5 wind even for my fat ass.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 07:42:02 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2021, 08:43:10 AM »
correct Bill.

Winter is small wing season. Many don’t own smaller than 4m.

That Cabrinha was a 3m. I rode Jacky’s 2.5m.


juandesooka

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2021, 09:56:58 AM »
Unless my wife comes and films me, I Won’t have any video. I used to use a go pro while surfing, windsurfing and SUP surfing and found them a Royal PITA. Spent more time fidgeting with the damn camera, that  I’d miss waves.  The 1st few videos were cool and exciting , but quickly got boring and it wasn’t worth the trouble.

Likewise...I stopped using the gopro because I found the extreme fisheye flattens the view to an extreme. So that epic day with head high wind swells ... looks about ankle high on the video.  And then my memory fades, that video remains, it replaces my memory, and the session no longer seems so rad.  Gopro became the buzzkill.    [and for proof of the flattening effect, look at Kai Lenny's videos of recent massive wave sessions....the video from shore shows a 50ft wave, the gopro looks kinda head high maybe  :P ]

Anyways, 40kts is a pretty clear line for me, in kiting ... it is when the balance of exhiliration/fear tips more solidly to fear.  40kt is where you start getting the smoke on the water effect and the ocean seems alive and angry.  To make it work with a 4m wing, the take-off had to be pretty close to straight downwing....floating pretty fast downwind with wing neutral until get the balance, then up and on foil instantly, focusing on not breaching. A smaller than normal foil wing was needed.  Gybes also had to be straight downwind ... with a long pause in between to get speed under control before edging the turn.  That is where i discovered that I had become a sail, at times I would just keep accelerating straight downwind, even with kite flying free on its leash....lots of huge explosive wipeouts.  While riding across the wind, I kept the wing close to straight overhead, with the back hand sheet-in just a light tease to gain enough power, but spilling out maybe 75%.  I don't claim to be ripping, it was survival conditions for sure, most of the time I focused on a locked-in maximum upwind angle, to make up for the lost real estate in the long downwind turns.  But when I did feel comfortable enough to let it go and ride the swells downwind, it was amazingly effortless, so much power to spare, staying up on foil for long stretches without the wing was easy.

To give some context for the 40kt claim: at one point I had to get to beach, park my gear, so that I could emergency land my kite buddy -- he was out of control and in danger mode way downwind, on a 4m kite. Yikes!

I am hooked -- my original plan was that winging would be a light wind alternative, but I'd kite when the real wind arrived.  My plans have now changed, if anything I am keeping my kite gear only for the 10-15kt days when winging is underpowered and "meh".  For that, I'd rather be ripping around on my kitefoil. Or just surf foiling if there's waves. Winging is most fun for me when it's 20+

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2021, 11:19:34 AM »

VB_Foil

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2021, 03:06:39 PM »
Having previously had a 3.5M Swing as my smallest, venturing out into 25-35MPH+ wasn't exactly a joyride(only 145 lbs).  Now with my 2.2M BRM, it is full on go-cart mode.  Sheet in and rip around everywhere.  Those smaller sizes can handle gusts crazy well.  Much better experience overall and not really unnerving like when you are overpowered in heavy winds as a lightweight. 
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4’5” 34L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
  
  

Foils: Armstrong HA525, HS625, HA725, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HA1325
Wings: BRM 2M & 3M, FreeWing Nitro 4M, OR 5M & 7M Glide

PonoBill

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2021, 03:34:30 PM »
Juan, get something smaller than 4 meter, smaller than 3 meter if you can. I bought a 2.8 Naish the first time I exploded my 3.5 but unfortunately, I found that was not a good size for a Naish. It reminded me of having our whackjob Brittany on a leash when he sees another dog. But I will have a 2.8 in my new Strike quiver. I weigh 215 these days, so the 2.8 won't get much use when the wind is less than 30mph, but that's a lot of days in Hood river, and I'm looking forward to it.

It's never the wind speed that makes me stay on shore, it's swell, gust differential, and shiftiness. 45 gusting to 50 in Hood river is rare but great fun. 35 gusting to 50, not so much, though I'd still probably go. But if the gusts include a big shift in wind direction they are really hard to handle, and in Maui, that kind of wind is usually accompanied by an east swell that puckers me up tighter than a hummingbird ass.

The saving grace in all of this is how well small wings depower. Stick it over your head or hold it by the leading edge handle and the power switches right off. That isn't quite so true with bigger wings. I tend to like being overpowered, so I often go on a larger wing than is wise. Especially if I'm doing an upwind/downwind run because I need a bit bigger for the downwind leg. If you're on a 5.0 in 35 gusting to 45 the depowered positions while you're going upwind and gaining some effective wind speed then the difference between powered and depowered can be disappointing.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2021, 02:49:12 AM »
Here is a great shot (not mine) of Chris Anderson in some 40 + mph wind on a 2.8 Swing.  It is pretty much survival mode.  Mid 40 mph range it starts blowing smoke and at 50 mph it is solid white.

30 MPH average wind with higher gusts is a pretty common forecast in the Gorge.  You can get gusts to 40 but moments to collect yourself and everyone goes out.  That is strong wind.  It is manageable in the protected and flat areas on the right sized wing, super challenging in the swell and can be very fun if the wind has a very tight range and the swell is smooth (out east in particular).  The bigger the range the harder it gets.  30 to 35 happens sometimes and it is magic.  You will congratulate yourself on your excellence, compliment your friends on their performances and buy drinks at the pub.  18 to 42 sucks balls.  You will feel badly about yourself, and will consider selling your gear. 

To get true 40 sustained averages certainly happens but it is much less frequent and sustained 50 is super rare on westerlies.  You might get get the shot but realistically there is a lot of catastrophe that goes along with it.  :)

Solent Foiler

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2021, 06:12:43 AM »
I was out yesterday with wind regularly gusting 35 knots, blowing cross shore (per harbour weather station which was directly upwind). I was on my 4m Pulse and while top end, was still fun. I'm light, at 65kg. My comments on maxed winging are:

- wing stability is massively important. I initially went out and immediately felt the wing was not as controlled as it normal, despite me putting in my normal pressure. Went in, put in 6-7 more pumps and handling was back to normal. That's a pretty fine line between awful and normal. The Pulse has full battens and I use a harness, both of which help stability too, all of which mean I can control how the wing is delivering it's power.

- water conditions are massively important. The water in the deep water shipping channel got significantly bigger chop than closer to the shore, tide running straight upwind. I ride a 100cm mast and the chop was so big and steep that it took quite a bit of focus keeping the foil in the water and not hitting the wave crests with the board. The chop was creating a lot of movement in the foil which meant doing anything but going in a straight line is awkward and gybes had to be timed to get a flatter patch or in time with the chop.

- how you wing is massively important. When it's this windy, I'm in upwind downwind fun mode, meaning the I can feather up into the wind in the gusts upwind, and can umbrella / flag surfing downwind. Going cross wind would be harder work, less controlled and less fun.

- using a small foil is easier. A big foil in that chop just bounces you around and also doesn't accelerate as quickly or smoothly when turning downwind to gybe, and isn't as responsive to the inevitable corrections mid gybe.

I'm 5'10", 66kg riding:
Swift Foil Boards custom 4'10 x 19.5" 35L
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Axis ART 799, 899, 1099, HPS 880 US & CS Adv fuse, 85cm mast
Gong Fluid L-S, XXL-S on 85cm and 65cm mast
Takuma RS 5.1, 4.3, 3.5

PonoBill

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2021, 08:11:19 AM »
I think I forget how intimidating high wind is the first time--or the first session after a layoff. When I got back from Maui last year (or was that five years ago--seems like forever) my first session was a 35 to WTF day. It didn't go well. I could get up in the swell shadow of the event center, and fly across with no problem, but on the Washington side I couldn't. I winged across on my knees--on the foil. It was really fun but not what I expected to do. By the middle of the summer that would have been no big deal at all. there are probably a few dozen tricks that make their way into the mental grab bag that make it easier.

I've been doing high wind sports in the Gorge since the 80's. When I do the math that's an improbable 40 years. I'm used to a lot of wind. We don't just live here for the fruit.

A long mast is a huge plus. I've been on the 90cm aluminum since Admin goaded me into it. Besides the wonderful swoopy feel, it also makes nutty swell much easier. If you're up reasonably high running over some monster is fairly smooth. You have to push down the backside, but that's kind of automatic anyway.

Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

juandesooka

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Re: Winging in very strong wind try2
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2021, 09:26:00 AM »
Juan, get something smaller than 4 meter, smaller than 3 meter if you can. I bought a 2.8 Naish the first time I

After my last few storm sessions, I am definitely in the hunt. Though TBH I have been surprised/stoked how well my 4m has fared in way too much wind for it.  Challenging but doable.

I almost pulled the trigger on a 3m Hot Wings used from Maui that I saw on craigslist. But if I am into the upper end used market or new prices, I am waiting to see what the Ocean Rodeo wings look like.  Local company. And the allula material may be a game changer for the frame, thinner chambers with more strength.  However, if the kites are an indicator, they will be priced accordingly too! 

There's another point about high wind winging....it is much harder on the gear.  Things move faster and there's a lot more opportunity for pointy foils to connect with soft fabrics.  Not to mention foils and boards meeting ground....the shorebreak can get intense, and man it sucks trying to get in managing board, foil, and wing....when it hits the fan, at least one gets sacrificed.  Last 2 sessions I broke a wing leash and a foil wingtip.  :-X    Flat water summer thermals this ain't.   Anyways....point is....this sport isn't like kiting, where you might baby your gear and sell it used for 75% what you paid.  Seems like these wings are likely to be disposable, when I am done with them, they may be mostly done! So gear will need refreshing sooner perhaps.

 


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