Author Topic: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?  (Read 2352 times)

Caribsurf

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When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« on: December 29, 2020, 12:52:52 PM »
Ok so with my windsurfing background, I have no problem riding switch stance in either direction on my wing foil board.  My issue has been switching stance during the gybe.  I make 90% of my gybes, however that’s because I drop off foil and just swing around and then switch stance and get back on foil.  I just cant seem to switch stance while on foil without a spectacular crash.  Pissing me off to no end...

I have tried many times to ride backside after the gybe and made many gybes on foil that way, but could not keep on foil once I started riding backside or heel slide or whatever you kiters call it.

When is the best time to switch stance during the gybe? Seen a few different methods on YouTube, none of which have been successful to date...any pointers appreciated.
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Solent Foiler

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2020, 01:12:41 PM »
Hi Caribsurf - like you I swap feet on each tack so spend most time riding heelside - heels pointing upwind. I think most people who do this swap feet after the gybe to begin with, but the key thing really is to get comfortable riding toeside - toes pointing upwind, with upper body twisted. This means that when you exit the gybe, you can continue for a little while without swapping feet so you're in no rush to get the foot swap done, and only do so when you're ready.

It's annoying to learn riding toeside if you're not used to it, as you feel like you're taking 3 steps back in progression but it's worth the time investment.

In doing the foot swap, I found it easier to hold the wing above my head and use it to give vertical lift to support your body weight while you change feet. Also (to state the obvious) keep your feet close to the centerline. I push down with my front foot, and as the board pops up again, meet it with my new front foot, and immediately put the new back foot back.

It took me quite a while to get really comfortable swapping feet, and it still remains the area of most likely failure if I do drop a gybe...
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
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Phils

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2020, 04:01:51 PM »
Ok so with my windsurfing background, I have no problem riding switch stance in either direction on my wing foil board.  My issue has been switching stance during the gybe.  I make 90% of my gybes, however that’s because I drop off foil and just swing around and then switch stance and get back on foil.  I just cant seem to switch stance while on foil without a spectacular crash.  Pissing me off to no end...

I have tried many times to ride backside after the gybe and made many gybes on foil that way, but could not keep on foil once I started riding backside or heel slide or whatever you kiters call it.

When is the best time to switch stance during the gybe? Seen a few different methods on YouTube, none of which have been successful to date...any pointers appreciated.
The easiest way to learn this is to separate the foot switch from the gybe itself.  So if regular (left foot forward is strong stance), gybe without switching feet (so go from heelside to toeside), get stable, then switch feet (to heelside, right foot forward).  If riding right foot forward, switch feet first (to toeside, left foot forward), get stable, then gybe and ride away heelside, left foot forward.  In other words, if riding strong foot forward, gybe first then switch feet.  If riding weak foot forward, switch feet first, then gybe.  Either way, separate the foot switch from the gybe.  Ignore the people who tell you that for a true gybe you have to do both at the same time.

Beasho

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2020, 04:52:30 PM »
Some great videos by JB from Naish Hawaii that he has been hiding.

Heel to Toe.  Switching feet before jybe/gybe/jibe.  Watch him skootch his feet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pRjEsf2BHY

Beasho

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2020, 04:54:16 PM »
Another version.  Looks like the key is keeping the feet tight and together.  Then swapping.  I also tend to fall off the foil when switching (aka almost 100% of the time).  Maybe more subtle dance moves will make this possible. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT8Eu85PLkI
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 04:59:49 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2020, 04:56:44 PM »
I call this "crack-head" stance.  When starting like this, usually after I gybe and don't switch my feet I can actually pull this move off.   Simply because there is no foot movement.  I managed a few of these on Christmas day in Northern California. 

Of course the penalty for failure was much higher because the air was 50 degrees and the water was also 50 degrees.  Very unpleasant to fall in.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taPeJjhIOv4

PS: Tracks looked like this.  Left to Right goofy foot.  We need to start sharing more Tracks.  This is Dawn Patrol on the iWatch.  Notice almost every line is straight.  I am very proud to be able to go straight with authority :)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 05:16:40 PM by Beasho »

PonoBill

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2020, 05:07:26 PM »
I am thrilled to hear other people are having trouble with this, I think it's a bazillion years of windsurfing engraved somewhere in my noggin that I can't shake. I come off foil almost every time, because my head makes me do an automatic windsurfing change, which doesn't work on foil. Or at least it doesn't for me. I'm working on stepping back and staying put during the jibe and switching afterward. I'm getting there, but after all this time I should be doing foiling jibes. Oddly enough, I can do a foiling tack (about 60 percent), which feels much goofier, but somehow it works.
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surfcowboy

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2020, 09:17:41 PM »
Aw man, you wind guys make a man learn a lot of new stuff. I’m just about to get comfortable on foil switch and now I gotta learn toe side too? 😉

I was hoping to get to plateau a bit by next week. It seems the Apollo-level splash downs will continue over here. But the “gybe on your strong side” advice makes a lot of sense.

Solent Foiler

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2020, 11:43:48 PM »
I find it fascinating hearing how other people tackle the same problem. I couldn't consider swapping feet before gybing when I was learning as it involves a foot swap to my much weaker toe side stance. Swapping after the gybe meant swapping into my stronger heelside stance which feels more natural and is much easier to correct if I didn't get the foot placement right first time.

To me as an ex windsurfer, riding toeside and the foot swap into toeside are two separate skills that needed real attention, so you have to learn both before doing a toeside gybe. Perhaps kiters are more able in heelside / toeside fluidity, whereas windsurfer don't suffer from riding switch (I didn't) but find toeside riding totally alien.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 11:51:52 PM by Solent Foiler »
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Flint 5'6 95L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L and XL on 100 monoblock mast
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

Phils

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2020, 12:50:30 AM »
....... I couldn't consider swapping feet before gybing when I was learning as it involves a foot swap to my much weaker toe side stance. ..........

IMO one should never ride toeside with weak foot forward.  My advice to op was to switch feet before the gybe is if you are riding with your weak foot forward......switch feet first so that you are now strong foot forward (toeside), then gybe.

Solent Foiler

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2020, 01:01:34 AM »
....... I couldn't consider swapping feet before gybing when I was learning as it involves a foot swap to my much weaker toe side stance. ..........

IMO one should never ride toeside with weak foot forward.  My advice to op was to switch feet before the gybe is if you are riding with your weak foot forward......switch feet first so that you are now strong foot forward (toeside), then gybe.

Sure, but my point was all of my toeside riding was weak, so swapping into a weaker position before the gybe would have required more skills to master so wasn't something that would have helped me learn to gybe and switch feet more quickly.

Different strokes, and all that...

For what it's worth, I am forcing myself to master weak foot forward toeside riding. It's just too useful a skill if you want to be equal (as possible) on both sides...
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Flint 5'6 95L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L and XL on 100 monoblock mast
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

Wingfoil1

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2020, 01:32:56 AM »
....... I couldn't consider swapping feet before gybing when I was learning as it involves a foot swap to my much weaker toe side stance. ..........

IMO one should never ride toeside with weak foot forward.  My advice to op was to switch feet before the gybe is if you are riding with your weak foot forward......switch feet first so that you are now strong foot forward (toeside), then gybe.

What he said!

Solent Foiler

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2020, 01:47:29 AM »
....... I couldn't consider swapping feet before gybing when I was learning as it involves a foot swap to my much weaker toe side stance. ..........

IMO one should never ride toeside with weak foot forward.  My advice to op was to switch feet before the gybe is if you are riding with your weak foot forward......switch feet first so that you are now strong foot forward (toeside), then gybe.

What he said!

Just our of interest, are you an ex kiter?
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Flint 5'6 95L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L and XL on 100 monoblock mast
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

Dwight (DW)

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2020, 04:01:48 AM »
Last summer my friend (pro level) said he was now winging toe side, weak/wrong foot forward.

Then Jacky started doing it.

That forced me to get comfortable doing it. Now it’s no big deal. Learn every version, it helps.

wrighty

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Re: When to switch stance, before , after or during gybe?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2020, 09:01:16 AM »
The easiest way to learn this is to separate the foot switch from the gybe itself.  So if regular (left foot forward is strong stance), gybe without switching feet (so go from heelside to toeside), get stable, then switch feet (to heelside, right foot forward).  If riding right foot forward, switch feet first (to toeside, left foot forward), get stable, then gybe and ride away heelside, left foot forward.  In other words, if riding strong foot forward, gybe first then switch feet.  If riding weak foot forward, switch feet first, then gybe.  Either way, separate the foot switch from the gybe.  Ignore the people who tell you that for a true gybe you have to do both at the same time.

I do exactly as Phils says.

I am a natural footer so do all my gybes in my natural stance i.e. left foot forward,
e.g. when on a Port tack, I gybe, ride out toeside (twisted stance/left foot forward) then when comfortable switch feet (right foot forward/goofy foot) then when I am about ready to gybe again I switch back to left foot forward (toeside, twisted stance) gybe then come out riding heelside natural stance.

Yep it was difficult at first but now I make 95% percent of foot changes and know it will soon be 99%.

I learnt to foil under a kite but never switched feet when kiting (it is easy to go upwind toeside)
I learnt the foot swap with a wing first but now do it kiting as well.
It becomes easy fairly quickly after you have done your first few.
Although this video is about switching stance when kiting the same technique works well winging and is what helped me out heaps.

https://youtu.be/vSdb-0GQ_dc

 


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