Author Topic: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind  (Read 5667 times)

Wind Runner

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Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« on: December 08, 2020, 07:58:47 AM »
As the subject says, which wings or wing shapes are best for upwind work?  Of course the foil has a huge effect also, maybe more, but in general what works best?  More curve, less curve, less/more dihedral, fat/thin leading edge diameter? etc etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2020, 01:59:31 PM »
I haven't seen much difference in wing design for going upwind.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Wingfoil1

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2020, 02:16:49 PM »
Of the wings I either owned or tried in the 5m size, the Ensis (medium size l/edge) really trucks upwind and doesnít backwind like the others Iíve tried. Naish (small l/edge) also good but does backwind. Echo and Unit (huge l/edge) not quite as good as the other two

Phils

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2020, 02:41:52 PM »
SUPboarderPro recently published a pretty comprehensive test of 13 5m wings and gave them numerical rankings in a number of categories.  The test was over a 7 week period in a variety of conditions by 6 riders of varying abilities.  They had planned to score wings in upwind ability but found the results too inconsistent to make sense of them and dropped that category in the final scoring.  In other words, they agree with Bill.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2020, 03:47:49 PM »
The difference between brands is night and day. But, you have to use a harness to expose the great ones from the turds.

The mags probably donít use a harness to test this.





Admin

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2020, 02:01:26 AM »
I was super impressed by the videos of the Ensis V2 wings for (at least the appearance of) leading edge stability.  Rigidity of the foil shape and draft stability should equal upwind performance.  We broke down and went for a quiver.  This and the availability of a 2.5 were the reasons.  Stoked to see how it works out.

Solent Foiler

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2020, 02:05:15 AM »
...The mags probably donít use a harness to test this.

The SUP Boarder PRO reviews didn't mention harnesses and I picked them up on it and asked them to consider it for next time.

IIRC their view wasn't that differences in upwind performance weren't there, but that there are too many variables to going upwind (of which the wing is only one) making assigning a score awkward. I can see their point to an extent (even the amount of wind changes how high you can point) but I still think they could have kept it as a more qualitative category (poor / average / good) even if they didn't assign it a score out of 10.
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL on 100 monoblock mast
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2020, 03:15:21 AM »
One of those associations testing wings, told me to piss off, a harness is stupid, when I asked them to include it in their test.

Two key flaws expose themselves within minutes of putting a harness on any wing.

1. Draft stability
2. Back winding

The Ensis crushes everything Iíve ridden upwind with a harness. Not even close.

My daily winging spot involves racing upwind to the main deep boat channel (biggest chop/waves) then surfing downwind. Then repeat. All day long. Lots of harness use. The non harness wingers at my spot are not doing this. They canít get to us....way upwind.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 03:18:37 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Mario_Wings

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2020, 04:38:46 AM »


Dwight ... can you please share a pic of the harness line setup on your ENSIS and also what sort of harness hook setup you use?


Solent Foiler

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2020, 05:45:10 AM »
One of those associations testing wings, told me to piss off, a harness is stupid, when I asked them to include it in their test.

Two key flaws expose themselves within minutes of putting a harness on any wing.

1. Draft stability
2. Back winding

The Ensis crushes everything Iíve ridden upwind with a harness. Not even close.

My daily winging spot involves racing upwind to the main deep boat channel (biggest chop/waves) then surfing downwind. Then repeat. All day long. Lots of harness use. The non harness wingers at my spot are not doing this. They canít get to us....way upwind.

I'm kinda waiting for the penny to drop on harness use. I think it will eventually for people on flat water and especially when people start racing. It was good to see Tucker's video https://youtu.be/iHL8AycgDTc about the topic, and validated my thoughts a bit.

I don't wing without one. I'm on a flat water spot and mowing the lawn just doesn't cut it. Going upwind / downwind is where it's at, and without a harness that would become a chore. I'll just go exploring much farther away with one on too, but hey, if everyone's having fun without, good on them!
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Lethal 4'6 65L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Gong Veloce L, XL and XXL on 100 monoblock mast
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2020, 05:56:01 AM »


Dwight ... can you please share a pic of the harness line setup on your ENSIS and also what sort of harness hook setup you use?



Harness line location is different on each size. As seen in this photo. Some wings have one side of harness on the front handle, and other side on middle. Some sizes have lines just on the middle. Mono lines only work on some sizes. Best to use regular lines, so you can move front and rear point around to find balance spot for each size.

https://youtu.be/l_pnBtSyFcw
I use the kite bar. It holds the harness line more securely in the hook. The windsurf bar is good if less confident in your harness use. Line falls out of hook easier, but it also falls out when you donít want it to.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 06:07:12 AM by Dwight (DW) »

WingSurfPeterT

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2020, 07:30:29 AM »
Agree with Dwight that using harness really helps going upwind.  I ride big triangles in moderate period windswell with a few minutes upwind and the fun begins. Sometimes I just work upwind on port as am regular footed  and surf back down mostly riding toeside. With the Ensis wings and a harness, as long as I don't head straight downwind while surfing, I can stay in the sweet spot near the edge of the channels by heading up as high as possible.

Also in cold weather with gloves harnesses make a big difference. Really could not ride upwind for very long with gloves without a harness. I use a mono line on all my wings and sometimes use a little pigtail to keep in near the front of the middle handle on some sizes.

The one thing I would really like to see is a hook the bends out of the way when climbing on to the board, then pops back into position when riding.

Maybe something similar to

https://www.kiteworldmag.com/gear/hb-surfkite-legacy-harness-review/

but haven't been able to find the hook alone and didn't want to buy an entire new harness

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 07:56:42 AM »
Peter, my hook does fold away.

When the hook hits the rail as I climb aboard, it just fold away every time. Once partially up on the board, elbows supporting my weight, I can finish climbing on without the hook digging into the deck pad. My boards look pristine, including the deck pad.

The key is, avoid the fancy harnesses designed for kiting. Where they try to make the hook super rigid so it canít ride up.

Old style, where the hook is kind of floppy. Donít make straps super tight.


WingSurfPeterT

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 01:01:47 PM »
I'll have to dig deep into the attic for some crappy old hook from the windsurfing days then!

Wind Runner

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Re: Best wings or wing shapes for going upwind
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2020, 02:54:58 PM »
This thread has been really good.  Thanks for the input!  Getting specific to one brand, has anyone tried the Gaastra Cross Wing?  It looks like it has a "performance" type shape (less dihedral, tight leach/trailing edge, less "pointy" too).  I was told it goes upwind pretty well, but the Naish Wing Surfer may be a little better at it.

I hear what's being said though... using a harness is essential for getting max upwind potential.

https://ga-windsurfing.com/sails/2021/foil/cross-21/

 


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