Author Topic: Which futures fins for a 10"6 x 29 Gerry Lopez Surf Sup & quads or thruster?  (Read 915 times)

marvinhecht

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Hi,

In other posts I entertained buying a smaller board but I have yet to really make full use of my own board, a 2014 Surftech Gerry Lopez Big Darling (Purple). It is a longboard-style surf SUP and it
The problem is not that I can't turn at all.  I can usually turn slightly left or right, and turn onto a wave, and do large arching turns, but I can't just whip it around 180 degrees to quickly catch a wave like I want to especially in the mushy windswell I now surf in (moved from Hawaii to Ontario, surfing in Lake Huron & Erie). I tell people it sort of feels  like I am "turning an oil tanker." Even in Hawaii on big waves, I never was able to actually do a bottom turn.

I will fully 100% admit that I am guilty as charged of not staying low enough on the board, not putting my weight or foot on the back of the board, and of not (yet) hiking the nose up to do a bouy-turn in the surf (I can do it fine in the flatwater). In another recent thread about a 2017 Naish board I had thought of buying I even posted several clips and you can see these issues in the videos.

However, while working on my form, I'd like to optimize my chances of being able to turn this board quicker. In the 6 years I've owned this board, I've always used it with quads. I had read or heard that quads were "better for performance" and just stuck with that. When I lost one of my quad GL1s in the ocean I bought a set of Quad GL2s. Then I lost one of those in the ocean, so for 3 years my default setup has been the GL2's up front and the GL1s in back (see pic). I am trying to individual replacement fins from Futures.com but having trouble. My first question is - given that the GL2s are a little smaller overall, and having the GL2s in the front and GL1s in the back makes the front fins not as big as they should be - should I replace the front quads with the white Futures T1 fins shown in the other pics? I've never used the white fins, they were cheap fins I bought for another board I was repairing - but they certainly are big!

Secondly, I am now learning that a thruster setup may in fact allow for easier turning especially for someone who is bad at stepping back more? Or perhaps it is better for me while I am learning to step back? So I think I'll be trying out the thruster setup soon. The only question is: for this thruster, I'll use the GL1 center fin, but do I want the bigger white T1 fins as my side fins? Or stick with the GL2s as side fins. They are smaller and would make it slightly more like a very mild 2+1 vs pure thruster (all fins equal size). Thanks for your help.

OK I've uploaded all the pics:
A) my default quad config (black GL2s front, honeycomb GL1s rear)
B) thruster  (honeycomb GL1 Center fin, black GL2 side bites
C) thruster  (honeycomb GL1 Center fin, white T1 side bites)
D) quad  (white T1s front, honeycomb GL1s rear)

One other option: While testing this board surftech put a set of V2F4 quads on it to "Liven it up", I can buy a 5-fin set for $99 right now. V2F4 fins are rated a 7.0 but not sure that what means.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 07:28:14 AM by marvinhecht »
10"6 x 29" Gerry Lopez Big Darlin Surftech SUP
GL1 and GL2 quads
Hoe Nalu Carbon Paddle (Surfing)
QuickBlade 86 Trifeca Carbon Paddle (Flatwater)

dietlin

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Forget the quad set up. Forget the T1s, they are huge and for a twin fin set-up, which has a difference box location than the fronts boxes on your board. 

AM2s from Futures in the front, Dobson 7.5" from Fins Unlimited in the LB box.  AM2s are a proven, great all around template.  NVS will sell you just the fronts in a template that is virtually identical to the AM2s.  They call it AM Comp.  Get it in large.

Done.


Badger

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Hi,

In other posts I entertained buying a smaller board but I have yet to really make full use of my own board, a 2014 Surftech Gerry Lopez Big Darling (Purple). It is a longboard-style surf SUP and it
The problem is not that I can't turn at all.  I can usually turn slightly left or right, and turn onto a wave, and do large arching turns, but I can't just whip it around 180 degrees to quickly catch a wave like I want to especially in the mushy windswell I now surf in (moved from Hawaii to Ontario, surfing in Lake Huron & Erie). I tell people it sort of feels  like I am "turning an oil tanker." Even in Hawaii on big waves, I never was able to actually do a bottom turn.

That is precisely why I don't like longboard shapes. Longboarding is an art that takes a lot of practice. The shape is not very conducive to turning so it requires a lot of finesse to get them to turn.

You could go with the standard longboard 2+1 fin set up. Maybe an 8 or 9-inch center fin and two much smaller side bites. That should dramatically help your turning in those mushy lake waves. Those GL side fins are way too big.

If you want something more high performance, those AM2's that dietlin mentioned would be great. That's a similar fin style to what Ben Gravy is using on his longboard on his recent visit to lake Ontario. Skip ahead to the 9:00 minute mark for the actual surfing.

https://youtu.be/ZdUUlSmgtSE

The waves were bigger in the second video. A shortboard shape might be better suited for these waves. It pays to have more than one board for different conditions. Skip ahead to 5:00 and 13:40.

https://youtu.be/-eRR46s0_To

I'll bet you don't have many glassy morning sessions on the great lakes. I think if I lived there, I would forget about trying to SUP surf the shorebreak in all that wind and get a downwind board or wing/foil board.


« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 02:55:49 PM by Badger »
Jimmy Lewis Super Frank  7'6 X 31"  115L
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Hypr Gun  10'6 X 28"  148L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 63yo

marvinhecht

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Hey guys,

Thanks as usual. Oh yeah, those white fins WERE twins - I bought them for a board I was repairing where I needed to replace the center finbox and I was going to temporarily use JUST these while doing the repair. I know, bad.

Badger, let me review those videos. I've actually had some decent days in the Great Lakes on waves that were 2-5 ft, and I am getting used to windswell. My buddy did just buy a Slingshot 3-in-1 board that does Windsurfing with a foil, SUP surfing with a foil, and he will get a portable wing, and he says I can try out his equipment.

OK for the Al Merrick AM2s, I can guy honeycomb originals in a thruster set from futures for $115. At surfnvs.com, I can buy the nearly identical AM Comp Large fins  for $80 - this is also a thruster set, maybe if I call them they will sell me just the 2 sides for less?

finsunlimited.com is sold out of the Dobson 7.5", they only have 6.0 and 6.5 left. I see futures has a "Gerry Lopez 7.75" single fin, or Machado or Admiral 7.5s (the latter looks more like the Dobson", all around $78.

It's getting a little too cold for my 4/3 wetsuit but if I can get out this weekend I think I'll see how the thruster setup on my board (GL1 center fin, GL2 sides) feels vis-a-vis quads.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 02:57:51 PM by marvinhecht »
10"6 x 29" Gerry Lopez Big Darlin Surftech SUP
GL1 and GL2 quads
Hoe Nalu Carbon Paddle (Surfing)
QuickBlade 86 Trifeca Carbon Paddle (Flatwater)

marvinhecht

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Hey Badger,

I was doing some searching and found this thread all about the GL1s and GL2s and looks like you even had some of both. Even though this thread is about me possibly going off quads, did you try those fins on your boards and what did you think of them?

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=35752.0
10"6 x 29" Gerry Lopez Big Darlin Surftech SUP
GL1 and GL2 quads
Hoe Nalu Carbon Paddle (Surfing)
QuickBlade 86 Trifeca Carbon Paddle (Flatwater)

Badger

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Hey Badger,

I was doing some searching and found this thread all about the GL1s and GL2s and looks like you even had some of both. Even though this thread is about me possibly going off quads, did you try those fins on your boards and what did you think of them?

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=35752.0

Yes, I used both sets extensively on a few different boards. I liked them at first but in the end, decided both sets were two big. Five years ago, the general consensus was that standup boards needed bigger fins than prone surfboards. I found that wasn't true, at least for me. Many on the forum started using standard prone fin sets even on bigger boards. I did too and never looked back. Large prone fin sets are plenty big enough for SUP. There is no need for fins to be SUP specific. Both the GL1's and GL2's were oversized for SUP but have been discontinued for quite some time.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 04:05:47 PM by Badger »
Jimmy Lewis Super Frank  7'6 X 31"  115L
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Hypr Gun  10'6 X 28"  148L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 63yo

marvinhecht

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Badger,
 
That is really insightful - the trend toward smaller fins. I had thought of ordering a set of V2F4 fins because at one point Surftech had me try the board with those on, to "loosen it up".  I see that they are smaller than both the GL1 and GL2 in all respects.

That same thread has a really good video from Blue Planet - it's cool to see Robert and the other guy "arguing" about fins and setups. They even mention the Lil Darling - and Robert says to try it all possible ways and see for yourself: Thruster, Quads, Quads+ nubster, and based on the video I may even try my white T1s as Twins on by board to see how "skatey" I can get it feeling -why not? And play around with the position of the thruster. Seems like there is a lot of individual preferences in fins ( just like boards)- there is no one "right" way.

I think the only thing they say NOT to do is to take a performance surf sup and put a big 2+1 setup (say a 9" center fin and 2 3.5") - this would make it NOT turn quick. So I can see why others here are saying maybe try a 2+1 but no bigger than a 7.5" center fin, with really small side bites.  Interesting...
10"6 x 29" Gerry Lopez Big Darlin Surftech SUP
GL1 and GL2 quads
Hoe Nalu Carbon Paddle (Surfing)
QuickBlade 86 Trifeca Carbon Paddle (Flatwater)

surlygringo

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Badger is right about fin size.  I use the same fins in my prone shortboards as I do in my sups unless I am running a 2+1. However, if I am reading your post correctly it seems like you are looking for equipment that will help you position for take-off. I donít believe the fin set-up is going to make much difference swinging for a wave.

Your concern about being able to turn your board around quickly gives me the impression that you might be making your take offs harder than they need to be.  It is actually easiest to take off on a sup starting in your front side stance with your board parallel to the swell rather than pointed towards shore. You need to be positioned where the swell is starting to jack up and ideally you should be moving slowly rather than starting from a dead stop. When the wave comes to you take a few hard strokes on your open side  and push your board down the face with your front foot.  When you start parallel with the wave each stroke turns you further down the face and puts you in better position to get in the wave. This technique has worked for me on high performance longboard sups as well as 7í4Ē short board style sups, in good big waves and in kooky tiny wind swell.



BigZ

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Badger,
 
That is really insightful - the trend toward smaller fins. I had thought of ordering a set of V2F4 fins because at one point Surftech had me try the board with those on, to "loosen it up".  I see that they are smaller than both the GL1 and GL2 in all respects.

That same thread has a really good video from Blue Planet - it's cool to see Robert and the other guy "arguing" about fins and setups. They even mention the Lil Darling - and Robert says to try it all possible ways and see for yourself: Thruster, Quads, Quads+ nubster, and based on the video I may even try my white T1s as Twins on by board to see how "skatey" I can get it feeling -why not? And play around with the position of the thruster. Seems like there is a lot of individual preferences in fins ( just like boards)- there is no one "right" way.

I think the only thing they say NOT to do is to take a performance surf sup and put a big 2+1 setup (say a 9" center fin and 2 3.5") - this would make it NOT turn quick. So I can see why others here are saying maybe try a 2+1 but no bigger than a 7.5" center fin, with really small side bites.  Interesting...

To be blunt, I donít think that fins will make any difference. You just need to practice. You can turn 14 foot board race board 180 degree in less than a second no matter what fins you use. We all like to play with equipment- it is part of the sport - but before you reach a certain  skill level it just does not really matter.


devon_sup_surf

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You have 2 issues

1) turning the board to position it for a wave

2) turning the board on the wave


1-  solved by taking a step back. Or a couple of steps. Keep your weight on the back foot. And making a wide paddle stroke. practice it on flat water. The board will be less stable with your weight back.

2- solved by improving your technique. Helped with a thruster fin setup. Many boards turn better with your weight further back. and engaging a rail of course.

Badger

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Back when I started standup surfing, I saw videos of the pros doing pivot turns to catch waves and thought that was the way to do it. I actually returned a perfectly nice board because it was too difficult for me to pivot turn. Since then I've learned that while pivot turns look really cool when catching a wave, they are not really a requirement. I gave up trying to do it and to this day, still use a simple cross sweep to turn the board around. My 10'6 is a little slower to turn for a wave but it's not a big deal once you've done it a few hundred times.

.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 02:45:46 PM by Badger »
Jimmy Lewis Super Frank  7'6 X 31"  115L
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Hypr Gun  10'6 X 28"  148L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 63yo

Badger

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I should add that small prone fin sets aren't always the way to go on bigger boards.

My 10'6 Hypr Gun seems to work best as a 2 +1 with a 7.5" center and 4.5" sides. I've tried it as a thruster and it doesn't seem to respond as well. That might be because of the somewhat narrow tail it or it could just be me and I need more time on the board.

Give the 2+1 set up a chance as well.
Jimmy Lewis Super Frank  7'6 X 31"  115L
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Hypr Gun  10'6 X 28"  148L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 63yo

marvinhecht

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Hey guys - as always, thanks for your awesome insights. I spent the weekend watching Youtube videos on SUP surfing stance/form, fin types, fin configurations,  the difference in shape between a traditional longboard and a "performance longboard" etc. My wife thought it was all greek to her and didn't mind as long as I gave her a foot massagel. She perked up when they started talking about  about bottom turns, thrusters, etc but I said no... it's not what you think...  ::)

OK so at the start of this thread I said I am guilty as charged about not using very good technique, and wanted this thread to be about fins not form, but it does seem like form is ultra-critical.

I was watching videos of Gerry Lopez on the Lil Darling and SUPboarder doing longboard SUP surfing- and seeing how they turn. I couldn't believe how far back they stand! It's almost like they were leaning back to do a bicycle pop-a-wheelie - but with their surfboard nose in the air! Or they were flying a 747 and yanking the control ALL the way to the back to launch the nose into the air for takeoff. In the following thread I posted a video of one of my best waves and I am looking at it, and i don't think my rear foot goes any further than the back 1/3 of the board. Also, because I hardly ever surfed prone before SUP surfing, I tend to use the paddle to turn, not my body/hips:

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,36733.msg423142.html#msg423142


surlygringo - I agree with you that instead of facing out back  I could start parallel to the beach.  I remember, I learned how to turn into wave using a wide sweeping arc:
   https://youtu.be/xL_OQPgiZ9o?t=86

Going back to it, I see Robert explains that yes you can start either pointing out back OR parallel to the wave/beach. And in fact I often DO hang out parallel to the beach - so I don't have to turn the board around 180 just a quarter turn- at least in the ocean. When i started surfing the great lakes I thought I can't do this because the waves are so close together - I basically have to let 1 wave role underneath me in the MIDDLE of my turn (exactly when I am parallel and COULD roll of my board like a hot dog on a rotisserie). But I found that my balance is good enough that I can do it now without falling off. I don't LIKE having the possibility of being thrown off my board while hanging out parallel, but it's better than trying to crank a 180" turn in 2 -  2.5 seconds. But you know what- I can (and do) practice BUOY turns in flat water, I'll just work on getting that down in the surf too!

Badger - got a question fins. Attached is a pic from the video you posted. Do you mean you like the fins on the right side or the black/grey ones on the left? Those are quite pretty - what model are they? Not the AM2, correct? I see the point - in weak windsurf it is good to have fins with big bases and lots of areas.  Also, at futures they they also have a line of fins in "BlackStix" that give you speed in weak great lakes surf, do you like fins in BlackStix too in this situation?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 10:18:09 AM by marvinhecht »
10"6 x 29" Gerry Lopez Big Darlin Surftech SUP
GL1 and GL2 quads
Hoe Nalu Carbon Paddle (Surfing)
QuickBlade 86 Trifeca Carbon Paddle (Flatwater)

marvinhecht

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Guys the most insightful video I found was this one. He starts out by saying that in a thruster you can initiate turns without too many issues (or easier - like you'all are saying). I actually have never tried a thruster on my board and set it up that way to out this weekend, but never made it out due to weather.

I made the link below start right at 8:22 where he is saying something REALLY interesting  - he says when turning a quad, the first 1/3 of the turn is tough, but the rest of the turn is easy. This is EXACTLY what I have found - I feel great once I turn (and it feels very fast/speedy) and get into the pocket, but that INITIAL part of the turn is a royal PITA on my board:

https://youtu.be/-_C0v7ihaIE?t=502

Did you see how he ALSO likes those AM2's for the sides? Do you guys like the orange/black version of this fin like he shows? OK then he goes on to show how these black & green "prototype" fins fixed the problem - made his quads turns as easily a thruster. He goes with these trailer fins I can now initiate a turn like butter - WAPP-HOOOWW!! He points out these trailers are convex on outside and flat on the inside. he also points out how these trailers help the most on boards where the trailers are set closer to the rail - like on my Lopez.

So it turns out this video is 7 years old and those trailers have since come out (no longer a prototype). In this comments section he says these are the "QD2 4.0 Tech Flex" trailers.
So my question to you guys is: have you used these trailers on your quad setup and do they make initiating a turn easier for you, like they did for him?

Lastly, I am looking at futures and my local surf shop and it seems there are all sorts of "QD2 " variations out now - QD2 4.0, QD2 3.75, QD2 3.0, and it comes in various materials having various types of flex. Some of them are black / green also, some are blue/black.. any thoughts on which "edition" would be good for my board, to run alongside the AM2s? BTW I won't be NOT trying the thruster, the 2+1 setups all mentioned, I am just really stoked that there could be quads that fix the problem I am having. I do like how quads are less dangerous (not as likely to cut me vis-a-vis one big fin, easier to close up my SUP case since they are not as high, and I can go closer to shore since they don't stick down as far..). Thanks in advance.


10"6 x 29" Gerry Lopez Big Darlin Surftech SUP
GL1 and GL2 quads
Hoe Nalu Carbon Paddle (Surfing)
QuickBlade 86 Trifeca Carbon Paddle (Flatwater)

surlygringo

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Marvin,

My apologies for jumping to technique solutions. I should have read your post more carefully. So... just fin advice: I donít think buying new fins is going to change your experience taking off or surfing much, if at all. I say that as someone who, while fortunate enough to grow up 2 blocks from the beach, has often had to make do with some pretty kooky waves while traveling for work. I have surfed very short interval wind swell on in the gulf and on lakes, ferry boat waves, standing waves, weird tidal waves inside rivers, the list is embarrassingly long. I have spent some days riding with different fins during the same session, riding finless, etc. I have not found there to be much difference between fins in those really gutless waves that you show yourself paddling in on the lake. I would just throw in your smallest set or the twins with a smaller trailer. I probably would not use that big single fin. Just a quick note not about fins. If your goal is making turns on small short interval wind swell there are better boards once you have more experience, although  the Naish you asked about in your other post is not one of them:)

 


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