Author Topic: New F One Swing?  (Read 5582 times)

winged surfer

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New F One Swing?
« on: September 19, 2020, 11:46:16 PM »
I just spotted this:
I can only see as changes the number of the handles and the central strut thinner
What do you think?


Dwight (DW)

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2020, 04:13:00 AM »
I think they opened the door for someone to innovate, and become king of the hill next season.

Iím not sure more floppy is the performance feature the market was craving.

Iím sure it is tighter, stiffer, and has more range, but every brand has that.

The human connection to the wing is the wholly grail. When it happens, it will be like the bow kite arrival.


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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2020, 07:10:30 AM »
They have done a really good job of hiding it if they are updating https://www.facebook.com/fonewingsurf .  Is this it?  Longer handles allowing easier hand passes and correcting placement is half of what they need to do. 

DownSouth

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2020, 11:00:19 AM »
There are aslo some rumours that they will use some new high tech material. On the photo you can see the two part leading edge ...   

winged surfer

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2020, 07:41:10 AM »
i spotted a couple of new pictures, considering the one in the picture has only one rear handle i'm assuming it can be the new wing.
can you spot some differences in designs or anything else?


PonoBill

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2020, 07:54:59 AM »
The trailing edge looks heftier and those lateral seams across the canopy are new (I think). I've bought some light tubular webbing with plans to sew it onto my 6M and/or 4.2 to help with the flapping. I'll thread a lightly tensioned "bolt rope" into this for adjustment, though my rope is kite line. The strut looks quite a bit thinner and it looks like there is a separate fill valve. That would be a good addition. Little tubes to fill multiple struts is a fine thing for kites and a pointless pain in the ass when you only have one strut. Getting the air out of the strut to pack the wing is fussy with the inevitably kinked filler tube, and the only way to have different pressure in the strut vs. leading edge is to clamp the tube at a lower pressure. There's no reasonable way to run a higher strut pressure.

Since wings are substantially smaller and simpler than kites it makes sense that the leading edge and strut could be made of exotic fabric.  There are laminated fabrics like Cuben that sandwich Spectra/Dyneema fibers and have 10 to 20 times more strength and less stretch than typical lightweight synthetic fabrics. Its also 5 to 20 times more expensive and the thread has to be as strong as the fabric, which makes sewing a bitch. I've tried to make things with Cuben and wound up with a real mess.

Most Cuben fabric is waterproof and air tight so it's theoretically possible to make a bladderless strut and leading edge. It's probably not worth the effort to do that since it would require sonic welding rather than stitching, but still...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 08:16:05 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 12:08:25 PM »
OK, no wind right now so might as well geek out a bit.

Bill noticed the seams, paneling, load lines.  The old ones were all horizontal and full width.  These (prototype?) are a mix of horizontal and vertical (subtle diagonal) with only two of the horizontals being full width.  Most seams/shaping at the section right behind the leading edge with progressively less on the outer sections.  I imagine that they really worked to stiffen the camber. 

It looks like there may be a little dip in the leading edge surrounding the handle.  It also looks a bit flatter outline to the leading edge at the front, less of a constant arc of the current model.

Looking just at the Red Channel I am seeing a new strut shape.  It looks like a cylinder with a conical end.  This may just be wishful thinking on my part because that is something I had mentioned that I would do if I was going to do stiff handles.  That would allow handles to be placed anywhere on the strut and remain level with one another or would allow constant clearance behind a mini boom.


PonoBill

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2020, 12:52:27 PM »
Looking at the front of the leading edge I suspect we're either looking at fancy-schmancy fabric or a lightly inflated wing. The V1 F-One had bulges along the leading edge, especially if Admin inflates it, but even at the recommend pressure the edge bulges between the seams so it looks a little like a tootsie roll. I don't see any hint of bulge in that leading edge. the canopy side of the leading edge has a hint of bulges, but it's not much--nothing like the V1 wing. The picture that started this thread shows how smooth the leading edge is as well.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 12:56:09 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

burchas

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2020, 05:01:34 PM »
With said launch date around the corner in November, I'm hoping there is more to it. Specifically regarding the handles.
in progress...

PonoBill

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2020, 06:40:12 PM »
A seriously high-tech fabric would be a big deal indeed. If they used strong enough thread (spectra) you could inflate the thing to 30 pounds and have a wing almost as rigid as one with carbon struts.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

paddlur

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2020, 07:12:21 PM »
Hope F1 do a upgrade of the handles and extend longer rear handle aft for us HW riders and keep it light and pull wingtips in to decrease wingspan a tad and Iím biting,donít see some magical new material being a game changer on a V2 after 20 yrs kiting been there seen that before, the VI material just fine just reinforce the stitching seams on the major stress points no need to reinvent the wing here but the V1 handles and locations needed some improvements no doubt.and keep the price point similar already overpaying for these wings as it is
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 07:17:54 PM by paddlur »
Naish kites-mhl lift foils-GoFoil-ASD surfboards fortaleza brasil,Kalama supfoil.AXIS foils

burchas

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2020, 09:06:56 PM »
A seriously high-tech fabric would be a big deal indeed. If they used strong enough thread (spectra) you could inflate the thing to 30 pounds and have a wing almost as rigid as one with carbon struts.

With fabrics like Aluula out on the market over a year ago, it's not out of the realm of possibilities but that would be stealing V3 thunder... We all know how that cycle works ::)
in progress...

PonoBill

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2020, 08:10:29 AM »
I guess the manufacturers have renamed Cuben as Dyneema Composite Fabric. Either fabric would be great. Aluula would make for a lighter wing and would be stiffer, Cuben would be crazy light and permit much higher tension on the fabric. Either one would be a lot more durable, Cuben is almost impossible to rip--the strength of the fabric comes from non-woven dyneema inside the lamination, there's no repeating pattern of thread for a tear to follow. It requires super sharp, high quality scissors to cut and even great scissors tend to wander and require constant correction to hand cut along a line. Both fabrics come in versions that are enhanced by graphene which pushes abrasion resistance to stratospheric levels. If you see a sailboat with dark grey sails you know the owner doesn't mind flinging money at their sails--it's probably graphene enhanced Cuben. Not easy to work with though. Anyone who has struggled to cut a spectra/dyneema rope understands the problem.

I'm surprised Ocean Rodeo hasn't produced a wing yet. When/if they do it will no doubt be aluula. They seem fully committed to the fabric. These new composite fabrics are going to make big changes in the outdoor world, but it's going to take time. Dacron has been around for almost 80 years, but took 30 years to be used commonly in outdoor clothing and gear. I remember when Dacron sleeping bags were considered junk--real sleeping bags had flannel on the inside and waxed canvas on the outside, and weighed about the same as an engine block when they got damp, which was always. When you pick up a piece of Cuben it feels ridiculously insubstantial--untill you try to stretch, tear or cut it. A Cuben rain shell typically weighs 6 ounces or less, looks like a piece of cheap crap and costs 300 bucks. But it's breathable and waterproof--even along the seams, packs down to the size of a candy bar, and doesn't lose any of it's properties when it's squished repeatedly. Crazy stuff. The price per yard is coming down dramatically. I bought four yards in a remarkably ugly yellow-green for more than 200 bucks a few years ago. Now I see it in some nicer colors for $17 a yard. That's almost as cheap as Dacron or ripstop nylon. Cuben has been around since the 90's, but adoption of the fabric was slowed in part because initially it was more susceptible to UV damage, and it part because North Sails bought the company and used all the production capability for sails. There's still some residual funny biz about using Cuben for sails, I think North still has the rights for sailmaking though Dyneema can sell it for all non-sailing applications.

Paddlur--reinforcing only goes so far. Stitching weakens the fabric and the needle holes provide a place for tears to start. That's why sailmakers use a version of zigzag stiching (I've forgotten what it's called, but it's zigzags with intermediate stiches in the zigs). Even when the thread doesn't fail, seams are the places where failures start because of stitching damage. These new composite fabrics don't fail along the seams unless the thread is weaker than the fabric. The needles rarely cut the threads of the fabric and weaken it, they just push the threads aside. In both cases we're not talking about small differences, these fabrics are 50 times stronger than dacron, and in some applications more like 100 times stronger. Typical Cuben fabric is .51 ounces per square yard. Dacron sailcloth ranges from 4oz to 16oz per yard, and .51 ounce Cuben is much stronger than 16oz sailcloth. This is like comparing carbon fiber to bamboo.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 08:50:14 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Keys Sup

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2020, 10:16:56 AM »
Love Cuben Fiber. Still have 2 Aerotech CF windsurf sails that are awesome!

winged surfer

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Re: New F One Swing?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2020, 06:33:41 AM »
i have an official release date: November 2020
Stay tuned!

 


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