Author Topic: Went back to my big foil today  (Read 5238 times)

Mike dubs

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Went back to my big foil today
« on: August 30, 2020, 12:48:59 PM »
So guys,  I have a Moses 1100 and 790. Ones 2100cm and the other 1550, I have been on my 1550 a lot lately on my 4.5 and 3.5 wings as it’s been pretty windy.

Today I stuck the 2100 on with my 4.5 wing in very choppy conditions and a dropping wind, hence the big foil. I found it too much foil and really affected by the chop today, even though it was just enough wind for the 4.5. I used to enjoy the 2100, but after riding my smaller foil a lot it felt weird. Is this normal? Does this mean I’m getting better and don’t need that big a foil? I’m 74kg.

Mike

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2020, 01:54:02 PM »
The bigger a foil is, the more it feels wave energy.

So in high winds, with big chop, a big foil will pulse up/down like crazy sensing every piece of chop on the water. A tiny foil will cruise under the chop unaffected by the wave energy, because it’s too small to sense the wave energy.

So both big and small foils are useful on the right days.

Just be sure to use the 483 tail with the 1100. The 450 is horrible and will make the 1100 pulse up and down like crazy.

PonoBill

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2020, 05:28:54 PM »
It's tough to go way back, but you can take little steps. I went from my 860 Axis (1212cm*2) to my 1000 (1310 square cm) today, and though it reacted a lot more to the nutty swell, it was fun and manageable, and I could pump it off the water with two quick pumps of the board.

A few weeks ago just before I sold my 1020 and 920 I went back to the 1020 ( 2051 square cm) and almost killed myself. I was over foiling like mad--exploding out of swells and violently faceplanting. I can switch to the 1150 (1713 square cm), which is huge, without consequence because I only use it in super light wind. I think in the long term we will all be on efficient wings that barely hold us up unless we're going reasonably fast. In the meantime, these slow, easy wings are a little miracle. But once you take the training wheels off, you can't really put them back on.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 05:34:55 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

headmount

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2020, 10:11:18 PM »
It's tough to go way back, but you can take little steps. I went from my 860 Axis (1212cm*2) to my 1000 (1310 square cm) today, and though it reacted a lot more to the nutty swell, it was fun and manageable, and I could pump it off the water with two quick pumps of the board.

A few weeks ago just before I sold my 1020 and 920 I went back to the 1020 ( 2051 square cm) and almost killed myself. I was over foiling like mad--exploding out of swells and violently faceplanting. I can switch to the 1150 (1713 square cm), which is huge, without consequence because I only use it in super light wind. I think in the long term we will all be on efficient wings that barely hold us up unless we're going reasonably fast. In the meantime, these slow, easy wings are a little miracle. But once you take the training wheels off, you can't really put them back on.
I have a hard time separating the word 'miracle' from the nut case in the WH.

Mike dubs

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 12:35:01 AM »
Great, thanks guys, I hoped that was the case, as I was fighting to keep it in the water.

Think I will only stick it on it in flat, light wind and stick to my 1550. Dwight, I do have the 483, thanks.

Or I could think about getting some different foils around 1750 and 1250/1350.....!
Man this sport can cost you😅 mike

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 01:07:01 AM »
So guys,  I have a Moses 1100 and 790. Ones 2100cm and the other 1550, I have been on my 1550 a lot lately on my 4.5 and 3.5 wings as it’s been pretty windy.

Today I stuck the 2100 on with my 4.5 wing in very choppy conditions and a dropping wind, hence the big foil. I found it too much foil and really affected by the chop today, even though it was just enough wind for the 4.5. I used to enjoy the 2100, but after riding my smaller foil a lot it felt weird. Is this normal? Does this mean I’m getting better and don’t need that big a foil? I’m 74kg.

Mike

Uh Oh!  You are in big trouble now :).  It is a dangerous process.  These smaller wings slice right through messy water.  They are quick and nimble but stay calm and relaxed.  That is pretty addictive.  I found that everything narrows up a bit stance wise and your foot position gets more specific.  Once you have adjusted it is hard to go back. 

I was having this same rap with a guy who was raving about his Moses 679.  He is doing really well on it.  That thing is a very thin 990 cm2 and he is with me at ~ 80kg. 

obxDave

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2020, 01:28:38 AM »
I have the 1100 and had the 790. Sold the 790.  (76 kg)

I always ask the same questions. How much are you tacking? Tacking both ways? Downwind (no hand change) 360’s? Upwind and downwind hand change 360’s? Behind the back tacks? Bump/wave surfing/pumping

My feeble opinion; if the vast majority of what your doing is plowing and jibing, and you’re plenty powered , then that 790 Works just great and will feel better than the 1100. If you’re in really light winds and value low stall speed, glide and pumping over hard turning the 1100 fits the bill. Let’s face it, anything works pretty good for plowing and jibing.

I want the WIDEST speed range, good pump ability, and I don’t want to give up that carvy feel. Nice low stall speed but nice and stable at those choppy high wind speeds, and not fighting me when I lean in on a turn. It’s a lot to ask for. That’s how I learn to do those moves above in less than a gazillion years. The 1100 and 790 are great but neither was ideal for my riding style (turn 5 different ways every 30 yards :o).  That nothing-special-looking Gong XL pro got me what I wanted despite all the PITA Gong hassles. The Veloce XL has been even better. Very stable foil with my 4m Echo in messy/choppy conditions, but still tons of glide and low enough stall speed to pull off a 360 or a less than perfect behind-the-back tack or heel-to-toe tack (on the foil) in that messy chop.

I’m sure there are other wings out there that are just good if not better. And of course Balz can do moves on a 790 and 1100 I will never do so factor that in as well. My worthless 2C
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 01:45:22 AM by obxDave »

winged surfer

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2020, 03:51:17 AM »
Dwight,
Since you tried both, how do you compare the Moses 790  and the Armstrong 1550HS?
thanks!

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2020, 04:15:16 AM »
Its likely a lot like early windsurfing.  There was gear optimized for flat water locations and later flat water freestyle, there were wave boards and there were Gorge boards.  It is hard not to go out here and spend your whole session riding swell and I see a lot of riders searching for what does that best. Its not only the big days, even in lighter wind and smaller swell it is captivating, surreal and a constant work in progress...and there goes a few hours.  I love watching all of the styles but these smaller wings we are using now add so much more control and fun in our turbulent swell conditions that it is hard not to gravitate towards them.  It is very possible that there are larger wings that do this as well, I just haven't ridden any.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 04:19:05 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2020, 04:25:27 AM »
Dwight,
Since you tried both, how do you compare the Moses 790  and the Armstrong 1550HS?
thanks!

I have only windsurf foiled the Slingshot copy of the 790. Hard to compare with windsurfing being so different.

If you have the Armstrong HS1550, I’d build around that and sell the Moses. Armstrong so much easier, smoother, surreal performance for us.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 04:32:45 AM by Dwight (DW) »

winged surfer

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2020, 04:50:56 AM »
Thanks Dwight,
That was ehat i was thinking after reading some posts about the 1550hs.
The thibg is that here in Italy nobody almost use Armstrong and it’s incredible expensive to get, but maybe i’ve found a way so i want just to be (almost) sure i will not regret my choice.
You use it with the 60 fuse and 300 back tail?

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2020, 07:37:01 AM »
You use it with the 60 fuse and 300 back tail?

Yes.

I’ll bet Moses is cheaper being in Italy. For us, Moses and Armstrong cost about the same.

winged surfer

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2020, 08:51:42 AM »
Yes actually a kit Moses with cost 1200 usd less than a kit Armstrong (same wing and mast size).
It would cost almost the same but adding Vat, shipping and customs costs make it so much more expensive.

Mike dubs

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2020, 02:49:29 AM »
Thanks guys, all good advice and yes after having a narrower stance on my 790, I did find myself more spread. I think I will try and stick with the 790 all the time, I’m guessing moving the mast forward would help when it’s marginal?

The Armstrong 1550 sounds good but as I only just got my Moses gear a few months ago, what are people’s recommendations for a front wing smaller than my 790 for when I’m really powered?

Thanks guys
Mike

omg

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Re: Went back to my big foil today
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2020, 04:06:16 AM »
I just ordered 1100 and 82cm + 483 Moses setup. I already ride 93cm mast with 633 + 483 with kite, and really dig the combo. Very agile setup and thought about using it when very windy with the wing, but I have my doubts due to the very low pumpability of the 633, it just doesn't pump that well. So I'm really relying on wave power, but when really windy, this shouldn't be a problem. What I want is to turn off the wing power and rely on water power.
What I am missing currently with kite, is utilizing the power from weaker swell, which I hope I will tackle with the w1100. I know it will have its limitations, but let's see. Armstrong would be nice, but it's just way too expensive here in Europe. I'm also quite sure Moses will bring mid sizes HA wing, less HA than their W800 and W1000, since they are clearly missing this segment.

 


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