Author Topic: Wing foil sessions - beginner  (Read 50923 times)

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #105 on: August 06, 2021, 12:53:29 PM »
That little turn DW likely got you there. As I wrote, some things just feel bad until they magically work one day. Gear sounds good. I’ll bet you get it next session.

Kojack

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2021, 04:54:27 AM »
Thanks for this thread.  It is really helpful.  I was a long time windsurfer, surfer and sup surfer-mostly sup surfer now.  51 years old 6'3" 195 pounds.  One session behind a boat and now 6 days winging.  First two days, maybe 20 seconds on foil total on my strong side-goofy foot and lots of long walks back up wind.  Day 3 and Day 4 in NC got some instruction.  Day 4 was a mess started on a 5.5 and ended up over powered and crushed on a 3.5 getting up and getting overpowered and crashing. 

Day 4 was a good day-up for over 1 min at a time a few times in 12-14mph wind on a 6.5m wing 

Day 5 and Day 6 I am now riding on foil both on strong side and also heel side on my weak side with no walks of shame!!!! That is the best not having to walk back.  Really shelly beaches here and booties are a must despite the fact that I dont like wearing them.  I am riding a 5'11" board with a 5.5 and 4.5 wing.  Have an Axis 1060 foil that I have moved further and further back in the box-moved it over an inch yesterday.  Still getting crazy lift in really powered up conditions.  I have only tried one gybe and ate it big time despite trying to stay really forward on the board.  I have two weeks of vacation in MA in front of me and am hoping for at least 10 days on the water before heading home.  We had surf yesterday-plenty of size but windy and I chose to head to the sound side and go winging vs surfing.  Never thought that would happen.

lots of bumps and bruises but man is this fun.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2021, 07:48:22 AM »
Kojack, thanks, and thx to the guys who filled in this knowledge.

I’m jealous of you wind guy lol. Y’all get everything so much faster. Headed to the lake today to work on toe side riding with some buddies.

Loving that folks are filling in the info here with their own experience learning. That was exactly the idea.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #108 on: August 08, 2021, 08:36:32 AM »
Ok, posting my adventures in 180°’s for Bigmtn. He and Hdip have been recommending I just go for it, full send, to learn to jibe. It’s true but not without some hard falls. But yeah, this is the way.

I really didn’t understand how fast you can enter a turn on a foil and make it. It’s crazy. You need to be able to moderate your height well as you will breach if you just turn at speed but I’m basically taking my wing overhead with one hand, fully weighting my front foot, an initiating what I think is a crazy turn and it works. Keep the nose down, keep pushing through, and the board goes. It feels crazy.

Cautions. If you’re a guy, you can over turn and slap you cojones on the water at speed in a way that only a middle aged man understands. If you let the nose come up at the end, you can (will?) taco and land on your rail or foil. Mostly rail for me. But this works and if you’ve not got a lot of surf foil experience you might not believe how these things can turn.

Anyway, my watch shows me making it all the way around to 180 about half the time now so I’m getting there. Be careful but also, go for it.

PS it feels amazing to lay into a turn like this.

Hwy1north

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #109 on: August 08, 2021, 10:35:26 AM »
I'm 175 lbs + wetsuit, 125L Naish board, Infinity 84 2000 cm^2 wing, 71cm mast, 6m wing in 15 mph, very flat water. Have mast set dead center in track.  Several people including this thread advise no pumping for beginners so I've been trying that but one gets impatient.  Am old windsurfer, no foil or kite experience.

Something weird happened at the end of the last session.  Was slogging back to shore, needed a little turn downwind, and put in a *tiny* bit of yaw with feet and the board started to rise up in a really smooth, level, controlled manner.  Then shoreline intervened.  Baffling.

jrob

Jrob, that 84 foil is a bit wierd, but it does work well once on foil.  Depending on where you place the mast; ie, close to the foil, or in the back position, would greatly effect the performance and my advise to you.  If you have the mast close to the foil, then I would move the mast to the front of the box, if the other, then more towards the back.  You really need to get some board speed by bearing off and pumping the wing, do this by raising the wing in more of an overhead movement and pulling down as opposed to pulling in like a sail, this will get weight off your feet and allow the foil to rise os its own.  More high performance foils can be pumped onto foil with your feet a bit more aggressively, but the 84 is so wide, it will stall if you don't get the nose back down just right.  So best to use board speed first, then lift smoothly.  Once on foil, its a very easy foil to ride, but then jibing, same issue; must be smooth without a lot of up and down pumping of the board.  Once on foil, then sheet in and head upwind to get your apparent wind working for you.  If you lift, but fall off foil, then you probably lifted too steep (too mush back foot) and/or didn't push your front foot hard enough as you sheeted in.

Kojack

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #110 on: August 12, 2021, 12:59:11 PM »
Just wrapped up two great days.  Rode my 4.5mm wing, shimmed my rear tail wing and rode on an Axis 860 a friend lent me front foil fully powered.  On foil all the time now both ways and getting up quickly.  Still riding both ways heel side, no toe side riding yet.  Gybes are not there-getting close but have not made one yet.  Tons of seaweed-eel grass making it tougher from what I am told to gybe.  Less ventilating and rode the entire 1 mile crossing and back without any falls other than in the turns.  Really need to make a gybe-it is starting to tick me off.  No consistency to my fails-sometimes over foil sometimes i get the board around and then come off foil.  I think a bit less wind may help as I was def overpowered a lot of the time today.  The fun continues tomorrow as it will be windy again.

oakfish

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #111 on: August 17, 2021, 10:20:51 AM »
Hwy1north: Thanks for the infinity 84 specific information. Really helpful. I'm riding the 84 and I've been working on pumping to get on foil. Seems like I can rise up on the foil briefly, but it won't stay up. I'm thinking about going back to my 99cm.
2 questions for you:
1) I have this setup:https://slingshotsports.com/collections/complete-foils-wing-surf/products/hover-glide-fsup-v3 . There is no way to move the mast forward/backward along the fuse. Should I buy a longer fuse?
2) Based on your experience, do you think there is a better foil for the beginner+ phase? The Infinity is HEAVY and other foils seem so light. I know everyone has their favorite foil, but the Infinity always gets moderate approval. Is it worth moving to a different foil?
Thanks!

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #112 on: August 17, 2021, 08:52:31 PM »
Oak, I’d say that from what I know no one sells a foil that won’t fly. You might have something set up wrong but even the wonkiest foil rig I’ve put together has stayed on foil.

Do you have someone who can check that 84 out for you or maybe try it behind a boat? It seems weird that you can get on foil but not maintain. The reason I ask is that I’ve heard of people flipping their tail wings or something. As to size, it’s usually shocking how small a foil will fly most people. (Hence all the guys who can ride 980 and 1050 foils.) Just would hate to see you buy new gear if yours is just messed up a little.

oakfish

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2021, 11:56:43 AM »
Cowboy...thanks for the reply, but I miscommunicated my problem. I'm making great progress on flying, especially when I can gather enough speed without pumping. I've been working on pumping up to foil, though, and sometimes I can get up on foil, but then stall as Hwy1north mentioned. I will definitely try and keep the nose down when pumping.
I was more curious if this idiosyncrasy was specific to the Infinity 84 and that maybe a different foil would be more forgiving. For example, if the naish of gofoil were really that much better (they've gotta be lighter!)
I was also curious if I should invest in a fuselage with multiple mast mounting options. My fuse can only take the mast in one spot.
I also mentioned my 99cm wing, though I suppose I was simply thinking out loud. That thing pops onto a foil so easily. The only downside is that when you start going fast, it really wants to nose dive. I have to shift all my weight back just to keep the nose from diving. I believe it is designed that way to prevent overfoiling with such a large wing.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #114 on: August 18, 2021, 07:38:20 PM »
Ah, got it.

The stall is one that you can beat. Here’s my experience. When pumping up I tend to end up back foot heavy. But the second I feel that I’m on the last pump, I get forward. For me this feels like I’m pulling myself onto a flat plane with the wing. The foil rockets ahead. Think about a skateboard Ollie but it’s maybe easier if you use that wing pump to pull yourself to weight the nose more.

The high speed dive could maybe be fixed with a shim I’ll bet. Either tail or base plate even. Lots of foils need tweaks. I’m curious how much better my ride could be with some tweaking but Hdip won’t hurry up and get able to ride my smaller gear. (Give him 4 sessions.) ;)

ninja tuna

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #115 on: August 18, 2021, 07:56:48 PM »
Oakfish,  Cowboy gave you great information about the stall and controlling it.  I had that problem in lighter winds.  You are working on pumping the foil up, but then do not forget about the wing in your hand to keep flying.  I did the same as you where I would pump to get up on the foil but then forgot to grab some air in the wing to keep going and back down I went.  Just an idea.

Hdip

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #116 on: August 18, 2021, 08:19:01 PM »
Give me wind I’ll ride it. But I’m not that great at tuning gear. I’m better at adjusting my style to fit the gear. Probably backwards.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #117 on: August 19, 2021, 07:08:11 AM »
That’s sort of what I think I may be doing but don’t quite know enough to tell really yet. ;)

clay

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #118 on: August 19, 2021, 11:11:42 AM »
Cowboy...thanks for the reply, but I miscommunicated my problem. I'm making great progress on flying, especially when I can gather enough speed without pumping. I've been working on pumping up to foil, though, and sometimes I can get up on foil, but then stall as Hwy1north mentioned. I will definitely try and keep the nose down when pumping.
I was more curious if this idiosyncrasy was specific to the Infinity 84 and that maybe a different foil would be more forgiving. For example, if the naish of gofoil were really that much better (they've gotta be lighter!)
I was also curious if I should invest in a fuselage with multiple mast mounting options. My fuse can only take the mast in one spot.
I also mentioned my 99cm wing, though I suppose I was simply thinking out loud. That thing pops onto a foil so easily. The only downside is that when you start going fast, it really wants to nose dive. I have to shift all my weight back just to keep the nose from diving. I believe it is designed that way to prevent overfoiling with such a large wing.

Easiest sure fire way I have found to know is have an advanced foiler ride your gear, just seeing someone ride it with ease will dispell doubt and show that it's possible.
Going fast and nose diving is usually a sign that the rear stabilizer needs more down force, basically shim the trailing edge up or the leading edge down.  I have yet to ride a front wing that has a negative angle of incidence and nose dives by design.  The 48cm stab is a beast and can be difficult to adjust pitch, the 42 is similarly sized to a lot at stabs out there.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

oakfish

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2021, 11:24:28 AM »
Clay, you know WAY more than I do. I'm just basing that statement on the slingshot teaser video. They said the foil is designed to have a downforce in the wing tip at high speed.
Check out minutes 1:30 : https://blog.slingshotsports.com/hydrofoil-wing-performance-3-new-hover-glide-infinity-foil-wings/

 


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