Author Topic: Wing foil sessions - beginner  (Read 18044 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2021, 03:00:34 PM »
Next week looks pretty good according to iWindsurf. I've moved to La Jolla Shores now so Mission is pretty handy. It would be cool to get some wind here in La Jolla, but so far I haven't seen much.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #76 on: January 10, 2021, 08:28:14 AM »
Ok so now able to start riding on foil switch. Still not pretty and not consistent but knowing how this all works Iím probably 2-3 sessions from getting that to where Iím comfortable. Iíll start trying toe side then but for now Iím going to start practicing on land since I seem to be pretty stiff in my waist and shoulder rotation.

One limitation to learning is that I really canít head upwind strongly switch so for now I have to only try when Iíve made good progress on my good side.

Yesterday was steady 15 mph with gusts to 20 (I think) and it felt overpowered at times with my 5m. I am learning to ďflyĒ the wing and depower and power it up as the wind shifts. I even used that second handle on the swing a bit. Lol  But man, I could use some steady Hawaiian wind. (Couldnít we all here in mainland winter?)

Got an Apple Watch and used Surfline Sessions to track my rides. Fastest speed I show was 13mph. Iím assuming that as I get better Iíll make more speed? I will say that when the speed hits 13 feels crazy fast with a strong wind blowing you. Must be wild in 30. It looks like I was going about as fast as the average wind with the gusts. Is this to be expected? And will speed come with experience (and yes, I think Iím about to try moving down to my faster foil on better days too.)

I want to also report that with my feet in the right position I can fully control this XL Gong Rise. I can see how the speed tops out but between managing my wing angles and keeping the front down, a small person can 100% learn on a big wing and itís is fun now to pop onto foil immediately. So Iím glad I have this wing to start with. Also, for switch riding itís been great to have the stability and slow reaction speed for sure.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 08:30:50 AM by surfcowboy »

PonoBill

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #77 on: January 10, 2021, 01:21:08 PM »
Fastest speed I show was 13mph. Iím assuming that as I get better Iíll make more speed? I will say that when the speed hits 13 feels crazy fast with a strong wind blowing you. Must be wild in 30. It looks like I was going about as fast as the average wind with the gusts. Is this to be expected?

Or 40, but that's heavy guy territory until you get some smaller wings.

When you can trim well, the highest speed angle is about 100 degrees to the wind. At that angle you can go quite a bit faster than windspeed if the wind is fairly light.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2021, 07:52:55 PM »
Ok, I gave it a few days but I canít interpret ď100į to the wind ď

On a 360į plane, where is the wind from? And where is my nose aimed?

For example if wind is from 0į (North) Iíd normally go across it at 270į W or 90į E as an easy angle. What would you say my nose could reach if I was headed 90įand turned North?

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2021, 09:15:52 PM »
Ok, 2-3 more sessions and the switch stance makes sense to me now. Iím riding with my front foot angled and my big toe maybe an inch off center. I was having trouble veering heel side sometimes when regular and then toe side when switch.

I seem to have solved both by leaving front foot in place on both and edging my back foot to where my toes are maybe 3-4 inches to the toe side rails. This allows me to control turns and keep straight on a reach when I want.

Rode a 6m wing in light wind today and loved it. Probably a good idea for SoCal and would open up a ton of days. My quiver may look more like 6 & 4 as I progress but Iím gonna see how my 5 goes as I learn. My pumping is coming along.

Ok so for straps, Iím not sure if a back strap will work for me with what Iím doing. Do I put one in behind my usual spot for when I need it and run with my foot out mostly or does the back strap give leverage to let me offset less? Iím getting curious about straps now.

Sam the Surfer

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2021, 10:57:08 AM »
Wow, great thread!! We went to 3 mile last weekend. Iíve winged around 10 times and am using a Gong HIPE 5í3Ē 110L, Gong Rise XXl or Xl, 80 cm mast, 6 m Ozone or 9 m Gong superpower.
Iím able to fly heel side regular and go up wind. Switch is killing me. I can sail back and not lose ground but get ruined trying to fly. The wing dips down when I start flying and I crash into it. I am so frustrated am thinking of going toe side and flying to fight the rage. Thoughts and tips on toe side?
We are from Spokane and usually donít have enough wind. When I took the 9 m out I got ripped off the board in the air!! Lol
We are also not going out into the river past the inlet.

Thanks,

Ben

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2021, 01:13:58 PM »
Man, itís all about patience. 2-3 sessions and each skill comes. But yeah thinking in switch seems so wrong and then it works. Glad you like the thread. It was to light the way when it seems impossible lol.

bigmtn

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2021, 06:54:03 PM »
Got my first tacks today! First attempt came really close, made it around, but dropped down off foil, but was able to pump back up onto foil fairly quickly. Next 4 or 5 attempts were worse, haha. Then boom, made it through and stayed on foil. Then proceeded to do 4 more in a row without falling or coming off foil. I wouldn't call them smooth, haha, but they felt pretty good!

This video helped me visualize the movement:
https://youtu.be/HrY2IOHUsa8

Now to figure out going back the other direction, heal to toe side.

Admin

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2021, 02:12:11 AM »
Sweet!   You guys are killing it.  No better feeling than hard earned achievement.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2021, 08:20:50 AM »
Yeah Bill! Thatís rad. Iím still sort of brain broken on the wing moves of heel to toe racks but I know like all wing things itís just ďtry it and youíll feel it.Ē

Congratulations and yes, the purpose of this thread was to show how the progression of basics in winging flow:

Impossible
Then wonky
Then acceptable
Then smooth

In 1-2 sessions per stage once youíve built the previous skills to start trying. This seems to be my path to switch and now Iím confirming it on Jibes.

PonoBill

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2021, 07:01:33 AM »
The wing switch for tacks is super-easy with a fake boom. I did one a few days ago one-handed. Shocked the shit out of me that it worked. I just turned upwind and let the wing blow over my head. I sailed out of the tack one-handed and then switched about a hundred yards later, then blew about ten jibes in a row.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2021, 08:41:58 PM »
I made a mini boom for my Switch. Itís front handle to just behind the last one which I hope will give me a little more grunt on light days.

Canít wait to try it.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2021, 07:26:25 PM »
Keeping this going for myself more than anyone else.

Mini boom with paddle shaft was too thick. Need around 7/8Ē or so for me so Iíve not bothered with it. Eventually I might make another but Iím alright with handles for now.

Progress? I feel like I plateaued for a bit. But thatís actually more of a feeling and impatience. No jibes yet. But switch riding has gotten better and better and Iíve gotten better and better at getting up in light wind. Working on this has given me a ton of fun and I highly recommend it if you live in a place with less consistent wind. You can do a lot with a smaller wing than you think. We have not seen the lower limit yet. Especially with v2+ wings. (Iím on v1 still) but Iíve felt stalled on turns and jibes for maybe two months (which is like 6 sessions at my rate so thereís that.)

Iím not a big ďgear makes you betterĒ guy but I know Iím hitting the limits of my big 2100 cm low aspect wing. I love it and am really glad I stayed on it so long but Iím starting to look for a new wing to try. Hoping my Curve LT at 1450 works but also want someone larger with a finer profile for these low low wind days Iím cheating on. Iím basically not able to carry enough glide through the turns without coming in damn hot lol. Though I did, yesterday, make my first heelside to toeside jibe and ride away. The wind died on me, but I call it a make. I didnít fall, just came off foil in that sad way you do when the gust fades.

And then the new board (yeah I need a build thread, been too busy.) 7 months or so on my 6í4Ēx28Ē sup/wing starter got me a solid start. If youíre translating, that is likely maybe 26-27 sessions. So, if youíre wondering if the hassle of buying and selling and upgrading a wing board is real, yeah, because if youíre doing 2-4 sessions a week that board is really only good for like 2-3 months. Tough gear curve.

Anyway, new guy is 5í2Ēx26 and no idea on liters but just under 5Ē thick at back. 13.6 lbs. It floats me but the deck is not over an inch out of the water. Itís at the lower end of what I can ride and therefore perfect right now. First session was easy in flat water and so while itíll be a challenge in chop, itíll be very doable. But man, what a difference! So light and fun. Instantly more manageable when on foil. I can feel the foil better and the effect of lower swing weight cannot be overstated. I can turn and play with the foil in a way that I simply couldnít with the larger board.

No loss in ability to get on foil either. This sport is not about planing really, just get enough speed to where your hops/pumps allow the foil to lift you and youíre up and gone. Also the reduced length and box placement allowed me to balance the foil better using the KDMaui method. (Thx Blue Planet for that podcast.)

And then, thereís pumping. I could not get the rhythm of pumping beyond one or two pumps with the larger board. On this one I was able to pump the board or wing or both to stay moving. I might prone surf this thing a bit and I thought guys were crazy for doing that before. This will work. In a weird but cool turn of events, because I never foiled or pumped much before winging I can actually pump switch too which is a nice advance. I am feeling like I might eventually be able to surf either side. Iím left handed so ambidexterity is fairly common. Next session, luff the wing and see if I can keep this thing cruising.

A fun thing I did as well is at the end of my switch runs sometimes Iíd just lay the board over and see how hard I could turn. You can crank turns with a wing just like you do with a paddle. The potential is there for some really cool moves with work.

Final progression note is that with that one jibe I did I can see how you can learn to ride toeside. Bigmtn talks about doing a short downwinder so you donít have to care about staying upwind, you can just go and lose ground if you want. Thatís the key I think, just jibe and see where it takes me til I get it. But it felt yesterday like switch used to. Awkward, but possible. Like I said, big day for progression and more to come.


« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 07:34:50 PM by surfcowboy »

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2021, 08:38:29 AM »
Ok, catch up and reflect 11 months in. For those like me that donít have great wind all the time, this takes a while. Iíve also been learning to prone foil at the same time so consider that. Thatís not an excuse, itís just to say that Iím somewhere in like the low 30ís for a session count so you could do this faster. My progression for a beginner seems acceptable (lol) in that Iím not quitting, just being patient as I do progress. Iím betting a week long trip to Hawaii or anywhere thereís good wind and a range of conditions will help a ton. (If I can keep bigmtn from dragging me into terrifying conditions lol)

Iím updating next with a post from Sharksupper about speed and jibes but hereís what I can do. All of this was fun to learn (after the first couple of weeks) and this sport is great. Do it if you have halfway decent conditions.

With a 5m wing and my 5í2Ē board I can:

Get up and ride heelside in 12mph+ wind up to about 20mph gusts (I have a 4m that I can almost do this.)

Get up and ride switch in slightly more wind. Working on this technique. My body is out of position I think. Need video.

I can get up and ride both ways in up to waist high chop. Above that I struggle so Iíve been doing lakes and smaller ocean days so far.

I can stay upwind off the foil or on foil in good conditions. However I get sucked downwind when trying to get up in marginal low wind conditions since you go for and fail to get on foil and lose ground. After 3-4 attempts, itís hard to gain back. In good wind, no issues, I can crank upwind pretty well. Learning to jibe will fix this immediately.

Still havenít gotten jibes (or tacks) on foil. I can do both off foil reliably. This seems to be related to my lack of experience turning at speed and inability to ride toeside . Thatís my next 2 areas of focus.

I am adapting to smaller wings and foils and boards as I go. This isnít that hard but Iíd offer that you donít push it. Drop board size first and if you use a bigger foil, make sure it glides. Iím moving off my thick profile big foil which was amazing to learn on, to a thinner profile on light wind days. Eventually Iíll be able to maybe have one foil for most conditions but the big boy is a cheat code on light days.

If someone asked me, and everyone will vary of course, if you were able to go once a week and hadnít foiled a lot before I think in a couple of months you could be having fun and in a year you might be slightly ahead of me and jibing which imho makes you a half decent foiler capable of riding and having fun in a wide range of conditions. (I have a ton of fun without jibes but have to choose my conditions more carefully.)

If you are an experienced foiler, itís all easier lol. I started to learn this sport to make my foiling better and it did. Now Iím working on prone foiling to get better at turning without the wing. So each sport helped the other for me at different times. If you live where there arenít waves, a boat would be the alternative to help with foil skills and it doesnít take much. Your buddyís fishing boat works fine.

Thanks for all who helped get me this far. Iíll keep this going. I need some video and am hoping to get that in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned!

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2021, 08:48:03 AM »
Adding @sharksupperís great post about jibes and speed.


óó Hey brother!  No worries.  I've found that it's the helping each other out and growing together that makes these sports fun!  ;D  I've taught and am currently teaching several people.

I can't say my advice is "right" or even the best way, it's just how I came to do things naturally.  My background is that I learned to surf foil a few years ago on a standup board.  I also windsurfed for 30years.  Both involve quite a bit of speed in the turns, so I was already used to going fast, mentally (it's kind of scary going fast!).  I do recommend as you get comfortable with foiling to push the speeds (in a straight line) and see what the foil will do and get used to a bit of speed and staying in control at speed.  The fact is the more speed you carry though the jibe (without blowing up that is!) the easier you're going to make the jibe flying.  First thing is first though, I learned to ride "toe side" or "switch foot" first, off the foil, then on the foil.  After that, the jibes came much easier.  You will either be jibing and ending up switch foot, or starting switch foot and ending up in your regular stance.  Yes, there are a few people who switch their feet and I have a few friends who keep trying to learn to jibe by changing feet in the middle of the jibe, I don't recommend this!  it upsets the board/foil too much usually.  The other thing I see people doing is fiddling with the wing during the turn and then forgetting to fly the foil and spitting out the board.  With enough speed, you can just about make a whole jibe without ever touching the wing!  I tell people "fly the foil first".  Try to just make the 180 degree carve on the foil, even if you have to gently bring it back down to the water at the end... vs trying to power up with the wing and distracting yourself too much to remember to keep the foil in control.  After you have built the muscle memory to control the foil through that turn, you can then add powering up the wing and even switching the feet if that's your path (I don't personally).  Anyway, hard to teach by typing, really need to see where you're at in person and make personal advice, but the above is generally what I've been giving to my friends learning. óóó


Hereís my take on what Iím doing. First, back to shlogging off foil to learn toeside. I donít wanna do it but I think itíll help me finish jibes.

Second, Iíve started doing S-turns while on foil to feel how the wing reacts. So much lift is made while turning, itís crazy. So learning to control that is good.

At the end of my straight runs, Iíve started trying to do a jibe without the wing. I put it over my head and go for a 180į turn. Iím getting about 135į right now. Be careful, this can lead to high speed taco falls if you breach a tip so Iím playing with these carefully and will build up to them. About 6mo ago I was boldly going for it and had a few hard falls and that slowed me down a bit.

I think that toeside riding will likely get me there as Iím really close to completing turns and if I was comfortable toeside I think I could pull through a partial turn. Itís hard to go back to basics again but Iíve learned that nothing in this sport takes more than a few sessions and patience pays off.

That and building comfort in faster turns should get me over the hump. Iím considering putting a front fin in my wing board and trying to SUP it a bit too to get more wave experience.

 


As for what speed you should go... each foil is different, so I can't say... Whatever speed you can start trying to carve the turn with without blowing up is the right speed for you.  See how far you can just glide though a turn without kicking out the board.  You might only make it 45 degrees around at first, then 90, eventually near 180.  Let the wing stay neutral and out of the way as you do this.  Plan on just gliding down to the water in control at the end... you will feel the foil run out of energy/lift and know it's time to come down gently for a landing.

 


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